EVO magazine insults 360 CS and Enzo

Brian
It is you that associated, incorrectly a quality survey, which is a quantative survey of complaints per vehicle, which can be anything from, the car wasn't cleaned properly on delivery through to the engine fell out, as a measure of reliability. be real here, what has a better chance of driving you from coast to coast with no real problems, an idiosynchratic Italian beast, or an MB sedan?

Talking to my friend, which I do recognise as second hand info, when buying the 550 originally, after discussing my use advise me to steer well clear of a 355/360 on the basis I was going to use the car on a regular basis. "Fragile" was his term, not mine. This came from a man that makes his living exclusively from servicing/repairing and restoring Ferrari's.

I am a good listener, but will concede it's not my greatest strength
As a moderator you can see I have received emails and PM's, now and in the past, from other members, who feel intimidated by the more opinionated and prolific posters here on this issue, so who's not listening?

I'm not looking to become the resident Ellen replacement and as such will try to phrase my opinions a less confronational manner in the future.

 

I enjoy Brian's passionate observations...but he is certainly not the oracle on performance. For example, objective comparisons I've seen of a GT3 vs. CS head to head has the GT3 faster than a CS, slightly (I would still rather have a CS)

My anecdotal two cents is based on owning five MB cars in the last four years, four Porsche cars and four F Cars in that same time. I love Ferrari. Ferrari is magic. However, in terms of build quality, F cars are lacking in some respects by comparison to my German cars. My F cars have never left me stranded on a highway but it's the little things which tend to go wrong on F Cars or tend to be annoying.

Finally, I wonder if the ostensible downward spiral in MB quality surveys is partially a function of MB building a wide spectrum of models priced within a wide spectrum. It would be interesting to see what the owner surveys are for CL and SL class cars.

Regards, Mike

 

Hubert and Senna are being rediculous...but it's what I've come to expect with the objectivity of some members of this group. Having said that there have been a fair bunch of objective looks at all the cars.

Guys.....I've owned lots of Fcars.....everything from 308's, TR's,348's to an F40....I love them all....There is nothing like getting the double clutch and the revs just right and clacking through that gate!

and Hubert....Pleeease, give me a break about street racing. Street cars were meant to go fast...on the street as well as the track. If you haven't done that then I'm sure you spend lots of time admiring your car along with your gold chains at the valet stand.

And Senna....that's a good self portrait you posted.....were you searching for your testicles? Probably can't find anything...but keep looking...you won't get any extra miles on your car.

I run a vintage Indycar and get plenty of track time with all my cars. The SL has even performed very well at the track....it is brilliant....and actually surprised most everything in the street car groups.

My point is that Ferrari needs to pull their act together and start making cars as good as the competition...and their dealers need to lose the attitude and start showing some customer service.

My other point is that there are so many quotes about this car will do this and that one will do that. Truth is.... that most performance cars' abilities are sooo much more than the average driver's skill level...especially in the US...that numbers are meaningless. Like I said...I've run away from groups of Fcars in my little 348. The last drive we had 550's, 575, a gaggle of 360's and 355's...even a Diablo. The guy in the Diablo was the most honest. He said that after watching the 348...he was headed to sign up for a driver's school! Most US Fcar people are more concerned about how low the miles are, and where the best parking spot is...rather than improving their skills and having fun driving.

I'm off to go driving....have fun posting! Ciao....D

 

stephens, why do you continue to argue that I was wrong to say 'X' when, in fact, I never said 'X'. Its damned annoying...

Where in any of my posts did I say that an MB sedan is more problematic than a Ferrari? I didn't ... you won't find it. What I said is that 360's are not too fragile to be used as daily drivers. That statement is nonsense.

Further, I pointed out that the MB S-class and E-class sedans are actually pretty low on the quality scale... and I'm not talking about cleanliness... I'm talking about parts reliability. The S-class is 30% below average in the luxury car class... thus similar owners... you can't invoke the picky owner shield. The E-class is even worse at roughly 50% below average. The problem areas? The worst are the electrical systems and the power equipment. Also problematic are the body hardware, body integrity, brakes, suspension, and air conditioning. Nothing about cleanliness on the list.

HOWEVER, in pointing that out, I am not saying that proves the Ferrari better. Unfortunately, Ferraris aren't available in sufficient numbers for it to show up in the survey results... they have certain minimum numbers.


Thus, just to be clear, if you want to argue that I am wrong, here's the two points to argue with:
1) The 360 is not "too fragile to be used as a daily driver".
2) Customer surveys show that the Mercedes cars of the late 90's and 00's are below average in reliability, much unlike the Mercedes cars of the 80's which were very much above average.

If you want to argue either of those points, go right ahead. But I'd appreciate it if you'd stop putting words in my mouth and then arguing against those words that I never said.

 

Ingenere after pulling his head out of his butt...

 

Who might that have been?

 

You should look up the difference b/w "objective" and "subjective."

Double clutch? On a synchro gearbox?

This from the man that can't grasp the nuance, and varied use of "heel toe" v. "double clutching." I have nothing to prove to anyone on the street, nor do I gain anything from latebraking grandma into the carpool line; I guess Double Clutching Aces such as yourself just can't be bothered , right?

Oh, what class? What chassis?

I agree.

Double clutching all the way... Vroom ... Vroom "Outta the way Gramps, I'm double clutching!"