News

Evo vs Porsche daily/ track car

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by BigSky355, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. BigSky355

    BigSky355 Karting

    Nov 8, 2004
    196
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Yet another thread asking opinions on an upcoming car purchase. This is my situation...

    I am looking for a daily driver that is fun to drive but I also want to start dabbling in some track time/ driver education stuff. My budget is around 40-45K max. A big issue unique to my situation is that I am in Montana so access to shops that can help me out with problems (ie. CEL's, leaks, bad stuff) is VERY limited (I can do very basic maintainence my self- oil, fluids etc). I already have the 355 which is my potential high maintainence mistress although she has behaved and most of the typical issues have been taken care of at this point (the last issue is the headers- I will be putting in a pair of Tubis with the next major coming up next month or two. I have a truck with enclosed trailer that I cart the 355 down to Boulder to have Dave Helms work on her. I am not crazy about having another car that I'd have to do the same with if something went wrong... Here are 2 cars I have been considering and would appreciate thoughts on as well as ANY OTHER CARS I may have missed.

    1. Porsche 993- I had one before my 355 and thoroughly enjoyed that car. Very solid, fun to drive but concerns exist as mentioned above, especially if I start running the car hard with track events etc. I looked at the 996's and they have their share of problems (ie rms, engine issues, horrible resale etc). Also they aren't as "exciting" to drive fwiw. Bottom line the 993 is a fantastic car.

    2. The new Mitsu Evo that is coming out (4b11). I could get the 5 speed gsr, do some basic suspension mods for track and should be able to run it pretty hard certainly as a daily and still get some good track time as well. The car will be under warranty and there is a dealership in town that can service it. AWD also a potential bonus in "difficult" weather. Resale probably not so great. I considered the previous gen evo (4g63)- fantastic ride, lighter, more track friendly, but I have to admit a bit too boy racer for me (I guess I am getting old).

    Audi, R32, bmw, anything american not my style. Cars like the Lotus not an option again because of lack of maintainence support.

    Don't even mention a wrx sti- the new hatch to me is just brutal to even look at...

    So at this point I seem to be leaning toward the Evo but the 993 is such a nice car. If I was in CA and budget not a concern, I would probably go hog wild on an air cooled Porsche or a preowned gt3.

    Any thoughts...

    Thanks in advance,

    Chris
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,712
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    993 Turbo all the way. None of the engine problems of the others ,and very nice cars can be had for 50k. Check out rennlist. Plus, it doesn't look like a box on wheels.




    Darrell.
     
  4. Adrift

    Adrift Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2004
    686
    Dallas area
    I am assuming your local Mitsu dealer would cancel your warranty faster than you could say "track time" if you were to actually run into track-induced issues. I am guessing Montanta is a small community, so keeping this track time a secret would be hard...?

    So I don't think it is reasonable to limit the purchase based on local service options. On the other hand, I would almost guarantee no matter what car, if you run it hard on a track, that it is going to have a higher-than-average issue rate. 993's may be relatively reliably, but they are also getting older. Time passes. It's a b!tch. You mention 996 resale rates, but then they have already taken the hit. You aren't going to pay a lot getting into a 996 (relatively speaking), so why do you think its resale would be bad?

    Personally, I would say 996/Boxster/Cayman. Newer means less issues in my book. For a used M96 car, if it is going to have RMS issues, chances are they have already happened. And with the budget you mentioned, I think you can get a nearly new one, and I think the RMS issue has mostly dried up in later models (anyone know differently?). I bet the Mitsu dealership would hose you on warranty for a track car, plus I have to imagine a high-strung turbo 4 is going to be more prone to hard-running issues than the relatively tame flat 6's in the Porsches.

    My 2 cents.

    PS 911 turbo's are fast...but ultimately heavy and you can feel that weight on the track, no matter what anyone says. I prefer a lighter, slower track car to a speedy porker. If you could get a used GT3 for $40k, I would already be in one. :)
     
  5. FerrariF50lover

    FerrariF50lover Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    2,347
    Ohio
    Full Name:
    Nate
    Get a Evo 8 or 9, you can pick them up in the mid 20's. They have been out for a while and they have a very large aftermarket backing so parts are readily avaible.
     
  6. Pantera

    Pantera F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2004
    4,423
    Nothing beats Porsche baby! :) You want beat the best go for the best!.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. lmunz22

    lmunz22 Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,195
    I would go for an Evo IX (not X) if you want a streetable car that is awesome on the track, or the Porsche if you want a awesome daily driver that is good on the track.
     
  9. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    EVO X MR all the way...that's what I'm getting later this year to replace my e60 M5 as a daily driver
     
  10. Carsonp

    Carsonp Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    1,409
    Minnesota - NW subs
    Full Name:
    Carson Partain
    how are evos for daily drivers? hows the ride? is it something youd take your family somewhere in or no?
     
  11. Canine64

    Canine64 Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2005
    303
    If a GT3 was in the 40-range, I'd take 2.

    You may also want to consider a 964 platform---specifically a '93 or '94 RS America. Try to find one with LSD as the only option---these cars are lighter than the 993, have no power steering, are very competent on the track, and really hold their value well. As long as you don't put it on it's roof, you'll be able to resell for close to what you bought it for. And, if you did crunch it up, you're only talking about a $30-40k hit.

    Between 1993 and 1994, only 701 RSAs were produced. For a ton of info and cars for sale, go to www.rsamerica.net.

    Good luck!!!
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. BigSky355

    BigSky355 Karting

    Nov 8, 2004
    196
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Chris
    The IX's and older were fantastic cars in regards to feel etc but probably a bit too rough for us older guys especially with family in the car. The X should be a better daily driver but unfortunately is also heavier (3517 lbs for the base GSR).
     
  14. BigSky355

    BigSky355 Karting

    Nov 8, 2004
    196
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Adrift,

    Reasonable points on tracking the car. Mitsubishi has apparently tried to void warranties on stock cars taken to scca events. I don't know too much about what is available out here so tracking the car may not even happen. We'll see... The big problem seems to be warranty coverage on some of these cars that have been modified (some heavily). I can't blame Mitsubishi for that.

    996's have had recurring problems with the rms issues. I've run into numerous cars including gt3's that have had it "fixed" more than once. Yes it is still a problem with the 997's as well (even a gt3rs) as reported on rennlist. I don't know if it is as common with the newer cars, but it still exists.

    Appreciate the comments on the 993's as well as the 964's (also great cars that will hold value well).
     
  15. masterflex164

    masterflex164 Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2004
    616
    New England
    remember that Evos are fast!

    Top Gear got a Murcie and an Evo on their track, and the Evo was faster then the Lambo.
     
  16. Adrift

    Adrift Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2004
    686
    Dallas area
    There are always going to be horror stories out there about any car. The hard part is figuring out what the common experience is, not just the people screaming bloody murder. Content people rarely speak up.

    I will write our local dealer service tech-guru to find out the current state of RMS affairs. I am curious whether this has been put to bed or not. I am thinking it largely has, from what I have heard previously.
     
  17. FerrariF50lover

    FerrariF50lover Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    2,347
    Ohio
    Full Name:
    Nate
    That was a evo with a different turbo and suspension IIRC. That was a Fq400 and its not avaible in america.
     
  18. Pantera

    Pantera F1 Rookie

    Nov 6, 2004
    4,423
    Not only that but its very expensive like 90k or something like that. Its not an EVO you can go pickup at the local dealership :D.
     
  19. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    The FQ400 is a dealer modified model available in the UK and its 400hp can be duplicated very easily by reprogramming the ECU...
     
  20. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,712
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell



    It also has different suspension, turbo, intercooler, brakes ect ect... It's a pure tuner car.


    Darrell.
     
  21. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    32,565
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    The EVO is a beer can. Almost bought one. Got a used S4 instead. :)

    993 is a timeless track proven classic.
     
  22. waltk88

    waltk88 Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2004
    553
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Walt K
    It's not difficult to make an Evo quick. Full turbo-back exhaust, boost controller and ECU reflash will get you very close to 400hp for less than $2,500. KW's v3 coilovers are available for the Evo for under $2,000. You can fit 9" wide wheels and 255 tires at all four corners under stock bodywork without even touching the fenders. The stock Brembo's are great on the track with pads and fluid change.

    It wouldn't take much effort to build an Evo to destroy the FQ400.
     
  23. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,712
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell


    Doesn't take much to make a 993 turbo quick either.






    Darrell.
     
  24. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    75,737
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    That was bull****. It was a very special limited production, only the UK version not like any Evo you can get in the USA.
    It was not just a chiped Evo with big breaks etc.

    If you can get that one for $40K then go for it. Get me one too while you're at it. It did look impressive.

    Bob S.
     
  25. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    75,737
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Define easy then. It's a lot more than just a chip in the engine ECU.
     
  26. waltk88

    waltk88 Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2004
    553
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Walt K
    Here's a dyno pull of an Evo with intake, exhaust, boost controller, fuel pump, and Aquamist. It made 418hp at the wheels! Stock turbo, stock cams, stock ECU.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbvX9s5rNDA
     
  27. staatsof

    staatsof Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    75,737
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    What no nitrous? Why not 600HP? What you're suggesting can be done to a lot of cars but how long do they last like that when driven at the track?
    The FQ400 came with a full factory warrantly and was "supposedly" beefed up across the board to handle the power bump. Whether or not it did hold up is
    another question. The active handling was also modified and for me that was perhaps the biggest modification. What was impressive about the video of it versus the Lamborghini was the handling and that was accomplished with more than just a set of coil-overs.

    You can find dyno pulls all day of cars pulling impressive HP numbers. That alone means nothing. Have you seen the one of the Israeli Fiat X19 beating a pair of motorcyles?

    Bob S.
     
  28. waltk88

    waltk88 Formula Junior

    Jun 10, 2004
    553
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    Walt K
    The FQ400 uses the same suspension setup as found on the Evo MR. The MR suspension (bespoke Bilstein dampers) is good, but can't be compared to good aftermarket coilovers such as the KW v3 or Tein SRC. The MR spring rates are just too soft for track work. The European and Japanese Evo's do have Active Yaw Control which is missing from the US cars. However, AYC was designed to make the car more user friendly at the limit rather than improve lap times.

    I stand by my argument that a US market Evo 9 can be made to outperform the FQ400 at modest cost. The power level of the FQ400 (330-340hp at the wheels) is easy for the iron block 4G63 motor to handle.
     

Share This Page