Hi all Not been around long or posted much, but was hoping to seek some advice on a possible purchase on a Ferrari, but the question is not model or brand specific as such. Basically, if you are spending £90-110k on any car, is it wrong to expect it to be in near mint condition, even if it is 15year old? Obviously it is a used car, so will never be factory fresh, but I have seen a couple of 599’s, and surprised given the brand and price point, just how used some of them are. I wont go into details but considering one i have looked at has done less than 15k miles, i was surprised by scratches/chips, some blemishes/bubbling at the base of one of the buttress’, and paint missing from the edge of the boot. (Where someone has been wearing rings and scratched it i assume) I dont come from money but im in a fortunate position (in one way), to even consider spending that kind of money on a car, as well as the associated maintenance. It just strikes me as odd that a car can be at that price point, with the prancing horse badge, and still not be close to mint. The interior was in decent condition, though standard sticky buttons and the radio flap was kind of stuck half way up. In photo’s and description it was my perfect spec, just felt like for top money and considering its mileage, it wasnt quite what i was expecting condition wise. I appreciate everyone has their own idea of what they were willing to accept etc. Just wondering if others had come across this when they were looking at six figure cars for the first time.
Most Ferrari owners take good care of their cars. Your going to have to keep looking, not only for one that has been kept up cosmetically but mechanically as well. Seeing that you have the money, take your time and have fun searching for a Ferrari that has been well taken care of. Prices today are still insanely greedy, so dont be in a rush, not that you are. Its been posted here in different threads about big drops in prices for used cars all across the board, so you have that on your side. I myself think that you will find the right car at the right time . We here all did !! Big G
Go to Hagerty.com and read their descriptions of Condition #1 thru #5 Cars and use that as a guide to forming your own opinion(s). Quite often, a seller will price their #4 car as a #5 car. Partly human nature to consider one's own car as "so special" or posturing to increase proceeds from an unsuspecting buyer. Look at as many 599's as you can and you will recognize a true gem when you encounter it.
I’m sorry but your ‘expectations’ are just way off imho…. Doesn’t matter if it’s Ferrari or Toyota. It’s whatever years old and is very likely to have many flaws and worn areas. Everything from paint to leather to mechanical issues are going to exist. Is Ferrari quality of material better than cheaper brands? That answer is no, as far as the paint holding up better or the leather not bubbling, peeling, cracking etc… in fact, it’s probably worse than most. And 90-110k or euro sadly, isn’t that much for a car these days so don’t think that because of the price, it should be better. Hell, even a ram truck is 100k+ and a bunch of other boring brands. Anyway, DEFINITELY don’t expect pristine condition on 15 yr old F cars. … well, unless you buy one from me cos I’m an OCD nutcase that even polishes the nuts and bolts on the undercarriage and interior haha [emoji23] Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
keep looking, the bottom is going to fall out of the used Ferrari market. Just wait and see, the insanity and greed is coming to an end. 230,000 for 355 gated is coming to an end . These greedy **** sucking prices will be no more, mark my words. Its going to happen, and that right quick. G
Sorry. I got the Hagerty numbering backasswards! Not enough coffee yet! Here is a history of 2008 599 values: Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not selling a RHD 599 are you? I appreciate all cars will have some signs of use, and appreciate 100k is not a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of things. Maybe the car is just over priced, i think if it was less, id probably be less picky, but its top money and still needs a little bit of work and love. As others have said, il keep looking and see what appears for sale. This particular car was just a little bit less than i expected quality wise considering the mileage and relative lack of use. I can accept that the tyres havnt been replaced, (2015 date stamp) as the car has hardly been driven, i just wasnt expecting a car costing this much to not be close to spotless thats all. Its all relative i guess.
You definately need to know the market pricing/condition ratio for the cars you are considering. $100k may buy you the best 348 out there, but a 488 seller will hang up on you. That is where lots of research comes in. The best advice I ever received on this subject, is buy the most special car you can honestly afford. That means if you can buy a Scuderia, don't buy a 430. The corollary is it is better to buy a lower condition rare car than a higher condition common one. 4 years ago, I went Ford GT shopping. When the top cars were going for $325k, I bought one for $182k. High miles, lots of modifications (which are more accepted in that car), no accidents, but it did have a damage claim in the carfax because the guy bumped into a curb (reasonable for a long hood low slung car I imagine). Anyway the tide lifts all boats, so my car has gone up in value at a pretty equal proportion with the top cars. I wanted to drive a Ford GT, I didn't care if it didn't have 500 miles on it.
some don't drive their ferrari's much at all and spend more time wiping them with a soft diaper than sitting behind the wheel. So those "mint" examples are out there... Of course they cost more than the ones that were treated "closer to" how a regular car is treated. The used up ones sit on the market longer, so they appear to be the bulk of the market, whereas a properly priced well-cared for example is only on the market (if at all) for a short moment. Some like to say the search is equal fun to the owning. (notice those same folks usually leave the word "driving" out of their comment) Anyways, if you want a garage queen exotic car to look at, they are out there. There is a reason so many exotics have so few miles on them... (I won't elaborate on the "garage queen's have more issues than driven cars" topic, but I suspect it will get brought up here by someone...)
AI - I got'cher back, buddy! MS - Since you're new here - he's referencing those EXTREMELY low mileage "garage queens" - so, unless you also intend to put the car in your living room, the tires are out of round, the gaskets and seals are dry, and even common maintenance items often aren't done. Ferrari's are "athletic" cars and if they're not taken out of the stable and cantered around the paddock once in a while they get out of shape! Kevin
The other thing is cars typically are not prepared til sale so either because the dealer doesn't want to invest money too soon or the consignor does not agree who should pay (hoping purchaser is not too fussy) This is a standard bugbear with multiple similar threads here and (in the UK) on Pistonheads
One point I’ll add is that Ferraris often show wear and deterioration sooner than you might expect. I looked at a lower mileage 599 GTB in 2021, and frankly it had leather shrinkage, a sun-cracked steering wheel lens (over the LEDs), bolster wear, and other cosmetic annoyances. My 22,000-mile 328 had already had redyed seats and some faded gauge markings when I got it. And sticky rubberized buttons seem common after 1990. That doesn’t mean these are bad cars, but it takes a lot of care to keep them pristine. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
There are 60 million millionaires in the world and there are less than 250,000 Ferraris ever made. These cars will never go down in value it’s mathematically impossible
As Jeremy Clarkson said years ago. If you want perfection, buy a Mercedes. Or marry an accountant. (obviously MB quality has gone downhill since that, but the premise is still valid).
I don't think wrong is the right word, but at that price point and age, I think it's unrealistic to expect close to minty condition for most models.
So despite <15k mileage you would still expect it to see signs of pretty extensive use? Just seems at odds that given its low mileage thats all. This is what im trying to understand. Dealer has also no way of verifying clutch and brake reading, and would be reliant on main dealer or specialist to confirm wear on both.
Your question is kind of broad. As posted above, a $120K 348 should be near perfect, while a $120K 512TR is probably undergoing an active engine fire. Regardless, cars age, so a 15 year-old car that has sat unused may have a nice interior and extensive oil leaks. If the owner put 1,000 miles on it every year, at regular intervals, it could be a perfectly preserved car. If he or she drove it 14,900 miles in year one and then lost interest, I would be more concerned. If you’re seriously interested in the car, get a PPI. As a side note, I bought a 911 two years ago with over 65,000 miles, but the one prior owner had used sheepskin seat covers and an old style vinyl front-end bra. So it looks amazing, but I replaced all the 30-year old fuel lines this year just because they’re old. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Oxygen, water (too much or too little), sunlight, darkness, salt and heat or cold are still the enemies of rubber, steal, aluminum, chrome, paint, leather, fossil fuels and oils, plastics. There's nothing you can do about it but slow down the process. Unless the car is made completely out of gold, expect one or more of these to have issues.
Unless they are outlawed or restricted from driving, I think you are pretty close. But like all fashions some will go out of style one day. Its unlikely but possible. How many of us lust after a Horse Surrey today? Or for that matter, a Brass era car? And you don't need to be a millionaire to own one -- but it helps!
Yes looks used. Ferrari uses the worst leather on the planet. I can stand on the leather of my jeep in ski boots and put my skis in the roof rack. Just getting in and out of any of my 6 limited use Ferraris wore out the bolster leather. Every Ferrari since the 348 has a sticky interior within a year. Some Ferraris are sticky upon delivery! I laughed at the sales guy at his mark-up on a new gorgeous TDF blue 456 with the leather bubbling off the driver's contoured headrest. This is Ferrari. You can have low mile ferraris with dead clutch in 15k miles while a corvette clutch will last you 100kmiles! Ferrari has no clue how to make an F1 that works or even manual trans clutch anywhere near what we would call robust. Ferrari uses the low bidder on every aspect of their cars. We see paint quality issues, windshield delaminating...all kinds of stupid. But it is us the really stupid who are willing to put up with this nonsense. I'm a big fool. I've owned Ferraris dating back to the late 70's.
Enzo Ferrari - "I don't sell cars. I sell engines. The car I throw in for free since something has to hold the engine in."
