Extreme Wear on inside corner of REAR tires | FerrariChat

Extreme Wear on inside corner of REAR tires

Discussion in '308/328' started by htapaul, Mar 26, 2013.

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  1. htapaul

    htapaul Karting

    Aug 21, 2006
    95
    Morton Wa/Mtn Ctr CA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I crawled under my 328 after running it up on ramps, and noticed a problem. The rear tires have plenty of tread, but the extreme inside shoulder of the tire has really worn down. Is there an alignment issue I am not aware of? If it were on the front tires, it would obviously be a toe out issue on both tires..., so I'm puzzled here. Anyone else have this come up? Thanks. Paul
     
  2. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Henry
    Too much negative camber...but the toe out could also be contributing. Is there any "feathering" of the tread?
     
  3. htapaul

    htapaul Karting

    Aug 21, 2006
    95
    Morton Wa/Mtn Ctr CA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    That's what baffled me for sure. No sign of feathering on the inside shoulder nor on the outside. Is setting the camber an amateur thing, or is it off to the shop?
     
  4. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Could be camber, toe, tire pressure, driving style.

    Probably alignment though. : )

    ...not an amateur job IMO. Requires a lot of detailed setup and measuring to get right. I would leave it to a pro at $75-120 being a standard range. A lot of crappy places out there though; make sure you get a solid referral. A proper alignment can make an incredible difference.
     
  5. LamboRider

    LamboRider Formula Junior

    Feb 9, 2011
    465
    Easy,
    you need to double your speed in the corners and clip the apex every time. Wear should even out quickly although you'll need new tires sooner
     
  6. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2010
    4,157
    Tarana
    Full Name:
    L. Ike Hunt
    So he should double his speed in the corners on improperly worn tires. Not fix the problem first?
     
  7. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,638
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Excellent advice. An alignment is not a first time DIY job and it is so cheap that you are best to leave it to the hands of a pro. I also agree with getting a good reference.

    In addition I would add that it is more money but go any buy 4 new tires before your alignment. Yes only 2 may be worn but you would be amazed at the difference of doing a good alignment on a matched set of new tires (save the Days of Thunder references please).
     
  8. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
    Full Name:
    Brian Harper
    If it is an alignment issue, why would it have changed? Check your rubber a-arm bushings for deterioration.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,826
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I think this is sort of "normal" on stock 308QV and 328 as the rear toe-in spec is towards the large side (3~4mm) as is the rear camber spec (-1.5 ~ -1.8 deg). Running the same size rear wheels/tires on my ex-308, about -1 deg was the maximum amount of rear camber that could be used for street driving and get reasonable equal wear across the tread width of the tire (and the rear toe-in spec was 2~3 mm IIRC). If you get the alignment checked, and it isn't crazy compared to the stock specs, you might consider shooting for the low end of the toe-in spec and reducing the rear negative camber -- of course, you should lower the front end a bunch and add much more negative camber there too ;)
     
  10. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
    11,074
    LA
    Full Name:
    Todd
    What are the alignment specs for 308 and 328?
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,826
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    The stock alignment specs for any year/version 308/328 are shown in the corresponding OM.
     
  12. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    12,083
    FRANCE
    Yep; and at the risk of looking an idiot (which I duly accept...) do please bear in mind that the cars whith bulged wheels and revised suspension have different suspension alignement specs, and settings, that the cars with concave wheels.
    And that, to my knowledge, only the last edition of the owner manuals (513/88 for euros cars without cats ; 518/88 for swiss & euros cars with cats ; 535/88 for american market cars) have the correct suspension settings for these bulged wheels / revised supension cars; so take care...
     
  13. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    Last year one of the Ferrari main dealers in London (HR Owen) had an open day at which they offered free suspension geometry check. The printout I received stated some of the values were out. But when I checked the specified values on the printout I found they didnt match the factory specified values in the OM. I suspect thats exactly the reason. When they dialled the car into their computer, it used the settings for the concave wheel cars.
    In fact my settings were perfectly OK.
     
  14. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Henry
    Don't think it would be pressure...under inflated would wear the edges on both sides & over inflated would wear in the center. I don't think driving style style is the culprit either...aggressive driving would wear the outside edges & non aggressive would not do anything.

    Alignments can be done with pretty good accuracy at home if you know what you are doing. It can be done as simple as with some string and 48" bubble level. You can find info online...try googling it or you tube. If you can't find, let me know, I've got a link somewhere.
     
  15. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Henry
    Think this was meant "tongue in cheek"...the higher corner speeds will even out the tire wear.
     
  16. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Henry
    Yes, make sure that all bushings are in good order and nothing is bent. Was the car recently lowered? Did this wear pattern happen all of a sudden?
     
  17. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,805
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ehh. Don't agree 100%. Probably right on pressure, but if you run big camber and drive straight, most cars will eat the inside of the tires. But I would always suspect toe first. As to doing a home alignment, I stand by what I said. It is tedious and requires a lot of attention to detail if you want to be accurate, not worth it to me with the awesome alignment machines and techs available.
     
  18. htapaul

    htapaul Karting

    Aug 21, 2006
    95
    Morton Wa/Mtn Ctr CA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    After jacking up the car much higher, ....I could get close enough to see that the area of extreme wear has feathering on the grooves that are still there...and there isn't much left. The tire has, say 80% of tread everywhere else, but the extreme 1" of the inside tread. I need the car serviced since I have a coolant leak that just appeared, so it is time for a major service, so this goes on the list. I am loading the 328 onto my car hauler for a trip down to
    a service center. Thanks for all the input. Paul PS(When I called Eugenios, he called back and said he was way backed up on work, and recommended Joe San Paulo at Concourse Sutomotive in La Habra CA. Anyone familiar with this shop? It's just for hoses, major service and this alignment issue.)
     
  19. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    71,963
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    Do you also have an issue with "power oversteer"?

    After my engine-out service, my 328's handling was pretty poor. I attributed it to the older GY tires, but after a couple of months, the inner edges were badly wearing.

    I had the shop do a full *four wheel* alignment, and fitted new Bridgestones.
    It transformed the car's handling.

    It's a complex job: some of the rear adjustments involve adding or removing shims.
    (I lent the mechanic a hemostat I carry as a soldering heat sink and small parts plier, and it made working the shims a lot easier on him.)
    It was done "while you wait", but I was there pretty much all day.

    But it certainly improves your handling, much less tire wear.

    I did some research, and I did my own alignment on my Celica GT-Four, after fitting coil-overs, with a pumb bob, a protractor, and a tape measure.
    But with the shims involved, it's better to let a good shop do the 328 on a Hunter (laser) machine.
    (Just be sure they don't try to mount the mirrors over wheel weights -- a Toyota dealer messed up my alignment with mis-mounted mirrors.)

    I usually recommend at least checking your alignment whenever you buy new tires. No sense getting new tires if they don't contact the road correctly.
     
  20. andyww

    andyww F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2011
    2,775
    London
    #20 andyww, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    They are also supposed to load the car with an equivalent to a persons weight as in the picture. Theoretically I suppose they should also load the passenger seat but then again who allows heavy passengers in their cars :)
    Incidentally the car in the second picture which is on the lift and covered in the background is Eric Claptons "special".
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  21. roalda

    roalda Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2007
    593
    Wiltshire England
    Full Name:
    Roy
    Nice car.
     

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