F-40 Aerodynamics: Advice Sought, Please On Driving Upside Down Within A Tunnel | FerrariChat
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F-40 Aerodynamics: Advice Sought, Please On Driving Upside Down Within A Tunnel

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by 512Tea Are, Jan 18, 2008.

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  1. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    #1 512Tea Are, Jan 18, 2008
    Dear Comrades,

    My understanding is that the F-40 is designed in such a manner that at high speeds the aerodynamics suck it down onto the gound. I have read that such is the force of this suction that it is far greater than the weight of the motor car. Accordingly, I am seeking information from a responsible aerodynamicist who will be able to provide calculations that may be relied upon with regard to the speed that should be attained before attempting to invert an F-40 in a tunnel and thus motoring in it upside down. Also, would any other modification be required - I am only contemplating short runs, so should the oil and petrol supplies be specially pressurised as I clearly would not wish the power to suddenly cut.

    Thank you.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  2. DennisForza

    DennisForza Formula 3

    May 23, 2006
    1,814
    Arlington, VA
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    #2 DennisForza, Jan 18, 2008
    Not hard to do, but those lights in the tunnel come up at you pretty fast and are harder to deal with than backmarkers in a race. ;)
     
  3. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    #3 512Tea Are, Jan 18, 2008
    Dear Comrade DennisForza,

    Yes of course - the damned lights! It's such a good thing that you mentioned this or it would most definitely have caused damage to the front spoiler. However, perhaps some kind contributor will provide information on tunnels that do not have central lights - there must be one somewhere?

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  4. MITengineer

    MITengineer Formula Junior

    Feb 18, 2004
    369
    Montana
    #4 MITengineer, Jan 18, 2008
    To provide enough downforce to drive upside down the car would need approximately 2600lbs of downforce at the bare minimum dangerous level. Considering the Enzo produces about 1800 lbs at 180mph, I find it doubtful that the F40 produces more, even with the gargantuan wing. You could have the car 3d modeled (expensive) and run through CFD (Conputational fluid dynamics) to get a rought idea of the downforce. Or a quick test at a full size wind tunnel can extrapolate results. Both are pricey options.
     
  5. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    #5 512Tea Are, Jan 18, 2008
    Dear Comrade MITengineer,

    Damn. From the information that you have provided it looks very much as though my endeavours will not reach fruition.

    Perhaps someone may provide information with regard to fitting wings at either side to increase the downforce?

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  6. csiman

    csiman Karting

    Oct 27, 2006
    63
    Up North.
    Full Name:
    Adam
    #6 csiman, Jan 18, 2008
    Kind of on topic, but i believe the Caparo 'could' drive upside down.
     
  7. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    #7 Far Out, Jan 18, 2008
    Dear Comrade 512Tea Are,

    Before concentrating on the car for undertaking your arduous adventure, you might want to consider that finding a tunnel providing angles between street and wall suitable for being negotiated with any car might prove difficult if not impossible. Taking into account that you'd might thus have to dig a tunnel long enough for a high speed run and with a radius large enough to safely enter the walls and ceiling, the construction company of your choice will happily throw in any car, including those with F1 pedigree, for free.

    With kind regards,

    Far Out
     
  8. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

    Aug 17, 2005
    3,954
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #8 modena1_2003, Jan 20, 2008
    When Honda ran their Formula car at the Salt Flats, I recall hearing about this "ceiling-drivability." It would be ver cool to see, and would be a YouTube hit. Too bad its damn close to impossible.

    Best of luck,
    Jon
     
  9. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Gregg
    #9 texasmr2, Jan 20, 2008
    Strap's and duct tape, git er done lol!
     
  10. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    #10 512Tea Are, Jan 20, 2008
    Dear Comrade modeni,

    What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve. Accordingly, when I have performed this momentous event I shall have Joey post the images on my behalf :)

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     
  11. Jati

    Jati Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2004
    299
    Florida & NC
    Full Name:
    Joe G.
    #11 Jati, Jan 20, 2008
    Dear 512 Tea Are,

    Although aspirations of driving your lightweight F40 while inverted in a tunnel shall not be realized....I believe an attempt to drive the F40 lightweight across "the pond", thus visiting your F-Chat Comrades in the Colonies, should be a possiblity.....
    The Kevlar woven undertray would act as a skim plate. I have calculated that one would only require a perpetual velocity of 88 MPH for the duration of the voyage. For re-petrolization, you would but have to ask the RAF for Harrier support...Perhaps BP would act as a sponsor of the event. If the trip becomes monotonous, you can resort to a physical act of pleasure that was discussed in another of your posts.
    I would wager that Sir Richard Branson would accompany you on such a fine journey, as long as you adhere a Virgin logo decal within the perimeters of your new roundels.

    Anchors Away! ;)

    Joe
     
  12. 512Tea Are

    512Tea Are F1 Rookie

    Apr 22, 2004
    2,742
    #12 512Tea Are, Jan 20, 2008
    Dear Comrade Jati,

    Ah, I have already planned a contingency for such an event as that to which you have alluded. The indomitable leviathan 512TR thaumaturgical behemothic road burning dream machine is already fitted with propellers from an F1 Power Boat. (Joe Sackey has the images) Accordingly, the F-40 is also fully equipped with oars thus to perform a maritime sojourn such as that to which you have described. Again Joe Sackey can vouch for the veracity of this as he has images within his possession. However, the Richard Branson sponsorship is something I had not considered, so thank you for alerting me to the potential. He is now set to to take over a bank - so he should be flush with funds :)

    With all good wishes from England.

    With kind regards,

    512 Tea Are
     

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