F-40 versus Lamborghina Miura - Is the Miura Better?

IMHO, apples and oranges on an apples website. Miura's name and what comes with it, from what I gather, is no match for the F40's.

 

Big time apples to oranges.


The F40 is as icon, not to sure about the Miura, as nice as it is.

 

As Supercars they can definately be compared...

The orignal Supercar (Miura) and the ultimate Supercar (F40).

Of course they are like chalk & cheese - completely different in all but the basic mid-engined sports car concept: different materials, different displacement engines with a different aspiration, different engine layout (transverse versus longitudinally-mounted) etc etc

2 very different cars from different eras. So the answer is that the Lamborghini is not "better" but different. Hey at least they both share clamshell-style bodywork

Of interest: a Miura SV went to an F-Chatter recently for almost the price of 2 F40s, if thats any comparison of greatness...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Do a complete history on the Miura before you compare it to an F40. If the mechanics at Ferrari didn't walk off the job & Lamborghini would have no Miura to brag about. It was basically made with Ferrari tech & know how.

Because of the political climate in Italy at that time because of a few crashes that resulted in people being killed, Enzo Ferrari didn't want to build a mid engine street legal race car. He could have if he really wanted to but he got unnecessary blame for crashes he had no control over. Lamborghini hired his mechanics and went forward with the Miura.

F40 > Miura.

Actually F40> any lamborighini.

 

Define better. I think I could safely say almost anyone here would give their right testicle at the chance to own either one. For exotics, that makes them both highly successful. They've stood the test of time and are desireable 20-35 years later. That's an impressive feat. If you're trying to compare them on anything else, they're just too different.

 

Kindly give us all a break!

The entire development and production of the Miura preceded the F40.

Apples and Oranges

This was certainly not the first or only time disgruntled employees went to work for a competitor.

The automotive world learned a new vocabulary word "Supercar" because of it.

 

lolololol someone has there head too far up the exhaust.

 

Clearly, you know little about the Miura's conception, design, specification & manufacture.

I suggest you "do a complete history on the Miura", to use your own words, before you embarrass yourself. Along the way, it would be helpful for you to know the backgrounds of Dallara, Stanzani, Gandini, Pedrazzi, Bevini, Malosi, Frignani and Wallace, and then youd be more qualified to comment correctly on the basis of the "tech & know how" behind the Miura.

As to your assertion that the Miura team consisted of ex-Ferrari men only (not correct, actually), my response would be: So?

As to why Enzo didnt proceed with a mid-engined Supercar for the road first, your viewpoint is an interesting theory, albeit pure speculation.

I do however agree with you that in its own timeframe the F40 is "better", but only in some areas, than the Miura. However, I must say that in other areas (considering it was made 20 years prior to the F40) the Miura SV is "better".

A balanced and dispassionate view would simply be that the 2 cars are vastly "different" sports cars from very different eras, and thats the view of someone who owns both...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Fabulous one-line summary!!!

 

Three "betters" come quickly to mind with a miura

1) better have fire suppression

2) better hope you like color combos like red/blue

3) or better like cars that have had thier color changed

def different

I'd vote the 250 GTO as the original supercar. No? How about the GT40?

 

neither the 250GTO or the GT40 are really road cars, but more race cars possibly and rarely used and seen on the road

original supercar is correct for the P400 miura IMO

 

i am with you sir,

i personally find both these concepts MUCH appealing

i am pretty jealous of our Joe that can appreciate both the different feelings of the light RAW twin turbo Ferrari and the low, great sounding V12 lamborghini in the same weeck end

i can assure you driving a vintage alluminum body, weber V12 lamborghini will put a smile on your face

 

1) So?

As is mandatory with ANY carburetted classic car....

The triple-barrell (choke) Weber carburettors as fitted on the Miura's V12 engine are basically the same as used on many carburetted racing cars of the 60s and early 70s. Their downdraught disposition lends them to fuel being deposited on ignition wires, plugs or even headers - IF the car is not correctly or currently maintained. The simple expedient of placing fuel-return lines to empty the carb chambers upon stopping has pretty much ensured that Miura carb fires are a thing of the distant past and in the 25 years Ive follwed the cars, I cant remember a major Miura fire in 15 years. In fact its well known that one of the desired features of the 21 USA Miura SVs is that they came supplied with fuel return lines factory-fitted.

But really, we all know that the reason you bring up fire supression is one of automotive stereotyping, as you ride the coat-tails of ignorant journalists of yesteryear who thought all Miuras might burst into flames at a moment's notice! Ive owned 7 Miuras over 20 years and thousands of miles. No fires. But Im pateintly waiting to put my extinguisher to use, as I have it handy each time out. As the saying goes: "dont leave home in a carburetted car without an extingusher on board". Oh the hardship..

2) So?

Miuras were built from 1967 to 1973, from the swinging sixties to the early years of psychedelia. The exciting color chart Bertone SpA selected really reflected the bold spectrum of the times in a way that no other manufacturer dared put forth. Bravo! The exciting colors are exactly one of the aspects that make Miuras so cool.

In case you were not aware, Ferrari chose the same red with blue interior livery (you refer to so disparagingly) for many of its great iconic racing cars, the 250 TR, 250 GTO, 275 GTB/4 C etc. What livery was the last Ferrari to win at Le Mans in? Hmm, if memory serves me right it was red with blue. Strange.

I cannot think of a more classic and evocative motorsports livery than the red & blue one aforementioned. I simply love it as do many, and I note that Ferruccio Lamborghini himself chose that same livery for his own Miura SV 5028....

I have attached some images to educate you as your comment suggests is needed - dont take my word for it, but like it or not, red/blue is a classic combination. I have added one of my own Miura for good measure

But really, we all know that the reason you bring up specifically red/blue livery, is one of automotive pettiness, simply because I own a Miura in that livery...

There is only one thing wrong with my F40. I wish Ferrari had supplied it with the nomex seat material in the same shade of blue as a salute to the great racing cars of the past.

3) So?

Ferraris, Maseratis, Lamborghinis et al, have all had color changes, including some notable cars that have scored at Pebble Beach, and others are owned by F-Chatters of repute.

Your comment suggests that most Miuras have had their colors changed. WRONG. In fact, as I scan the list of all 762 Miuras made, Id say the vast majority remain in their original livery, whether original or restored examples.

But really, we all know that the real reason you suggest Miuras are all color-changed, is one of automotive ignorance, as you make tall proclamations on matters you are short on knowlege about...




But lets get back to the topic at hand. "Is the Miura better?" (than the F40)
No, just different. A true comparison is impossible because they are decades apart, so I will settle for the fact that the Miura is the original Supercar and the F40 is the Ultimate. I offer ownership of both as some sort of solution here, and I walk that talk myself. I know a discerning gentleman who has both (not me, although I am guilty by association too) and he echos the same sentiments. Other than him, I personally know of nary another soul with the same combination to bear witness to my enthusiasm for both. I hope that changes...

Joe
www.joesackey.com


Below: Iconic cars in an iconic livery: "Rosso" with "Blu"...note the 250 GTO in red/blue, complete with fire supression.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

To me this is simply a question of what cars are on your "list". Both cars could occupy pride of place in any collection. In my mind the ultimate progression is:

Miura .. 288GTO ... McLaren F1 ... the Next "Enzo". For me the Enzo its neither fish-nor-fowl, since its got a very 1999 F1 gearshift rather than the 599/430S superfast.

I was working on "the four" from this forum title. I'm now working on "the four" above.

 

Pffft I happen to respect the views of authors deemed worthy to publish in respected automotive journals over the views of someone peddling cars. Your delusion of selfimportance has gotten the best of you as I had no idea as your Miura's color combo. I was merely expressing an opinion. A right to do so, no less important than that of yours. Remarks that vacilate from "needing" the Classische Cert to touting the accomplishments of non-original cars is exemplary of the automotive ignorance you referred to in your post. What's BEST is only what's BEST in your interests at the moment. I now permit you to put that weekly spirited 12.5 miles on your F40.

 

Dan,

Your Avatar could use 'augmentation' I think?

I would describe your four as the Fab Four...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Joe, Miura + F40 makes perfect sense to me - and I love your Miura. Regards, Will

 

Dear Comrade 512 Tea Are,

Aye, perhaps a little more precise. The Miura was indeed what many call the original. Twelve cylinders, old school carbs, aluminum curves, etc., all combine to create quite a machine. But I would ask this: did the Miura fill out said characteristics as much as the F40 overwhelmed it's own? To be sure, the F40 is "agricultural", but it simply blows it's shortcomings to pieces when the driver steps on the throttle for more than two seconds. So much so that many people say that it lacks shortcomings altogether.

Your quoted experts no doubt have much more to say on the subject that can be backed up much better than my opinion. I enjoy reading Mr. Sackey's posts particularly; as he seems to possess a wealth of information on the subject. But to me, it is quite simple: The F40 blew people's minds. That's it. Other cars may be dynamically better, more comfortable, etc., but for the ultimate thrill ride, the F40 is where it's at. That is at least what I gather from reading people's opinions here and collective automotive media.

And I said apples to oranges simply because this site would seem to be a bit biased.

With kind regards,

Matt

 

A couple thoughts to carry the sour grapes along with:

- It is well-known that most authors who publish anythng on the Miura in respected automotive journals hold it in much higher exteem than you do, as your prior comments belie. In fact I recall in recent years the Miura hailed as "the sexiest postwar sports car" and the "ultimate classic sports car of all time" etc etc etc. I had hoped to give a balanced perspective, but if you wish to invoke the views of automotive journalists, youll find that they tend to wax lyrical with poetic licence about the Miura.

- I have no doubt that your red/blue reference was made exactly because of my Miura. Lets agree to differ on your denials because thats my informed view and Im sticking to it. Below is one more example of the classic red/blue livery as favored in the glory days by your favorite marque. Not saying anyone must like it, but your disparaging comments about Miuras suggested it was a strange & awful comination that all Miuras had (re-read your post if youve forgotten already) that had to be stomached if one was to own a Miura. Automotive nonsense.

- The Classiche Program is a wonderful thing for both customers & cars and I beleive in it 100%. As do Ferrari. If you feel that badly about it my suggestion would be to take a stand by not owning a Ferrari...

- I fully understand that biased people who habitually stereotype espouse the notion that anyone involved in the trade, such as myself, cannot possibly have high standards, be very knowlegable, or be honest. I understand. In the same way that I understand that some people are simply narrow-minded. Fortunately, I simply reject that outmoded notion, and allow it to affect me not one iota as Im sure youre well aware of by now.

- I put 90 miles on my F40 2 weekends ago. No telling when I will drive that particular car next, but Im sure I drive it more than most, and if it averages out at 12.5 miles per week thats just fine and dandy by me Judging by the mileage of the cars I come across, it appears to me I do roughly eight times the mileage most ownerrs have covered in their cars over the past 15-17 years.

Joe
www.joesackey.com

Ooops, almost forgot: here is another silly car with that awful red/blue combination. What was Ferrari thinking?
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

IMHO,
Both the Muira, and the F40 are incredible Cars.
Which is better?
Better for what, Handling, Looks, Sex Appeal, Track Days, a drive through Sonoma, Investment Value??
As others have stated, they are different animals, The better is in the Beholders Eye.

Richard

 

Thanks Will.

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

IMO There are several reasons why this isn't a good comparison.

8 vs. 12. Turbo vs. NA. 20 years difference.

In my opinion, a better car to compare the Miura to would be the 250 GTO. Granted, they are very different cars as well, but they are from roughly the same time period and give a better picture of what each company was focusing on at the time. Ferrari was producing one hell of a GT. Lamborghini was producing a monster that even us Ferrari guys admire to this day.

The Miura was the first real supercar. The F40 was a better supercar... 20 years later.

The thing that the Miura has always had going for it is styling. Its curves are simply astonishing. It is the only really distinct looking Lamborghini IMO.

Its the only Lambo I would ever truly desire. Everything else just looks fast.

Best