F-Chat mentioned in most recent Sheehan SCM article | FerrariChat

F-Chat mentioned in most recent Sheehan SCM article

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by El Wayne, May 4, 2011.

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  1. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    #1 El Wayne, May 4, 2011
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
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    When is Fast too Fast?

    If a used 550 bought for $75k could be zapped back to 1972, with nothing but a set of slicks added, it would probably win the GT class at Le Mans
    As appeared in:
    Sports Car Market--May 2011 issue
    Sheehan Speaks
    by Michael Sheehan

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    Driver and passenger both survived

    This month's column focuses on three related points. First, I do a lot of expert-witness work, so I'm consulted on many horrifically wrecked Ferraris, which is very sobering.

    I also get emails from Ferrari Internet chat groups monitoring the relatively new trend of punitive traffic fines in Europe and Canada.

    Finally, because I drive most of the modern Ferraris, I'm all too aware just how staggeringly fast today's supercars are relative to real-world speeds.

    Let's explore each of these topics, with my goals being that I testify fewer times each month, and that we see fewer owners lose their licenses and cars through ever-more Draconian laws.

    Sliced in half at 96 mph

    Late last year, I was consulted regarding a 360 Stradale driven by Charles "Mask" Lewis, one of the founders of Tapout, a maker of clothing for Mixed Martial Arts fans. Lewis was racing a Porsche in Newport Beach, CA, when they collided and spun at about 100 mph. The 360 hit a utility pole at 96 mph, cutting the car in half and instantly killing Lewis. His passenger survived.

    My most recent major accident inspection was a 430 Spider in Newport Beach, CA, which spun at about 100 mph and crossed a center divider, hitting an oncoming tow truck. The tow truck was totaled, the Ferrari was ripped in half and the Ferrari's passenger was killed--although the driver lived. The tow truck occupants were all injured.

    Today's software allows forensic engineers to digitally re-create these accidents with amazing accuracy. My mission is to help download data from the car's onboard computers or "black boxes," which can be a wealth of "what happened" information. The usual first question from the lawyers is to Ferrari's liability, but inevitably the fault is pilot error that begins with an excess of speed and ends with a lack of talent.

    High speeds and high fines

    Canada has laws which allow the police to seize vehicles because of excessive speed or reckless driving.

    In my former hometown of North Vancouver, the owner of an F430 recently had his Ferrari seized and sold by the government when he was caught doing 200 kph (125mph) in a 40 kph (25 mph) zone while racing a BMW M6.

    According to Rich Coleman, the British Columbia solicitor General, "When a vehicle has killed or injured someone, it's too late. Our laws now work to take vehicles away from reckless drivers before they hurt someone."

    The Ferrari sold for $306k, with the money divided between the vehicle owner's bank and the government in an 80/20 split. The 31-year-old driver had owned the F430 for just one day.

    In Finland, traffic fines are based on income. The more you make, the more you pay for a traffic ticket. For example, 27-year-old dot-com millionaire Jaakko Rytsola was fined $74,400 for driving his Ferrari 360 dangerously. While the police said that Rytsola was not speeding, they claimed that he switched lanes too often and endangered other traffic in downtown Helsinki.

    There is no lack of other staggering examples of traffic fines from the land of Kimi Räikkönen.

    The Ferrari-unfriendly Swiss

    In Switzerland, traffic fines are also based on income, and a Testarossa driver was fined nearly $290k U.S. for driving 85 mph in a 50 mph zone. He was initially fined about $90k U.S. by the local jurisdiction, but the next court increased the fine after the driver said he was a diplomat from the Republic of Guinea-Bissau and claimed diplomatic immunity. That didn't sway the court, which boosted the fine to $290k.

    "The accused ignored elementary traffic rules with a powerful vehicle out of a pure desire for speed," said the court judgment. On the upside, apparently the driver has to pay only half of the fine now--with the rest deferred and possibly eliminated for good behavior.

    In what may be the world's most expensive speeding ticket, a 37-year-old Swede initially escaped multiple Swiss radar traps because the traps were incapable of recording speeds beyond 200 kph (125 mph).

    But a new-generation radar gun finally caught him at close to 300 kph (186 mph) between Bern and Lausanne. When pulled over by Swiss traffic police, it took the driver more than half a kilometer (546 yards) to slow down and stop his car. He initially faced a highly publicized fine of just over $1m U.S. dollars, but that was ultimately negotiated to a mere $325k U.S.

    200 mph on a highway near you

    Modern Ferraris are wonderful cars, and they do everything right with linear precision--and give drivers staggering performance.

    If one had access to a time machine, a used 550 bought for $75k could be zapped back to 1972, and with nothing but a set of slicks, would probably win the GT class at Le Mans--embarrassing the fabled competition Daytonas. While the 550 was marketed as a mere 199-mph car, the 575 will break the 200 mph mark, and the 599 is even faster. All this makes one ask “when is too fast too fast?”

    The race track might be the place to drive fast--if you have the skills.

    In the U.S., road racing usually starts with the Sports Car Club of America, which requires six hours of on-track instruction for an SCCA novice permit. After two races with a regional license, one can get an SCCA National license.

    After a season of track time with a National license, one can move up to an FIA International C license without too much drama. There are more advanced FIA licenses, but each step up requires much more track time in faster cars.

    As a quick comparison in speeds, a Daytona Prototype is glued to the track thanks to lots of downforce. Because of the speed-killing downforce--and lots of wing--a Daytona Prototype will hit a mere 185 mph on the longest straights, such as at Daytona.

    The driver lives in a roll cage and carbon-fiber encapsulated tube-chassis cocoon and should walk away from virtually any accident. A stock Ferrari 550 will go faster, but the car lacks the same downforce, the same ultra-stiff suspension and the same level of brakes. More importantly, the only requirement to find out just how fast a 550 will go is a checkbook that will cover the cost. No high-speed experience is required or asked.

    While Ferraris are very well built and very high-speed accidents are usually survivable, the laws of physics and frailties of the human physiology kick in at speeds of 100 mph and faster.

    Because most Ferrari owners only explore ultra-high speeds very late at night or on long and lonely straight stretches of road, when accidents do happen, the driver and passenger are usually the only victims. Unfortunately it's only a matter of time before someone in a Ferrari takes a number of bystanders out.

    In their usually knee-jerk reaction, some politicians will propose and pass the Draconian laws common in Europe and Canada. I don't want my next expert witness contract to be about an SCMer's Ferrari.

    Hopefully none of our readers want to be the future poster child for new legislation that confiscates cars to raise much-needed state revenue--or be the example used to create a new push for Draconian video- or photo-enforced speeding tickets.

    If you own or buy a supercar, do yourself and the public a favor and take a few racing school lessons.

    For the price of a cam belt service, you can rent a spec. Miata, go to an SCCA (or similar) driver's school, qualify 39th for your first race and do everything right for 30 terror-filled minutes to work your way up to 35th place. And if you do everything wrong, at least you have limited your losses to $3k to $7k--and you'll have a lifetime memory to take home. Finally, you will not be the subject of a long and embarrassing thread on www.ferrarichat.com.

    This article originally appeared in Sports Car Market Magazine. To read more of Mike's articles from Sports Car Market or other publications please click here.

    My regards.

    M. Sheehan.


    Copyright - Michael Sheehan's Ferraris-online.com, 1842 Galaxy Drive, Newport Beach, CA 92660, Phones: 949-646-0481 or 949-646-6086 http://www.ferraris-online.com
     
  2. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    This is the best part:

    Too bad only a fraction of owners will turn that advice into action.
     
  3. F1.360.LOVER

    F1.360.LOVER Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2009
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    Nate
    +1, I totally agree with you.
     
  4. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
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    Tony K.
    This site is indeed known for long and embarrassing threads! :D
     
  5. pr3par32die

    pr3par32die Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2010
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    Matt
    Yep, lol. Very interesting article, thanks for sharing.
     
  6. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    Wow ! I really enjoyed this post, and for both personal
    and professional reasons.

    I am looking forward to seeing just how fast "My" Ferrari(s)
    are, but there is no plan to do that very soon, since it
    will involve installing a suitable roll cage, 6-point belts, and
    a powerful fire-supression system.

    Cars and motorcycles regularly exceed 200 MPH at the east coats's
    most prominant land - speed - racing track www.ecta-lsr.com but
    I don't believe a Ferrari has ever shown up to run - possibly because
    of the roll-cage requirement.

    Not many of us are willing to make the "commitment" to the
    cutting and welding necessary to meet the reasonable safety rules.

    * * * * *

    As with Mike, my day job has been offering expert testimony about
    vehical crashes - but exclusively for motorcycles.

    My first "product libality" matter found me on the witness stand in 1967.

    Since I gave courtroom testimony last month, my career is
    approaching 50 years............

    Interestingly enough, my "fastest" auto investigation was for a friend
    who crashed his home - made race car at about 340 MPH, while accelerating
    on the Bonneville Salt Flats.

    My fastest motorcycle investigation, until recently, was that of an
    elderly gentleman riding a vintage 1955 Vincent Black Shadow on
    the same Bonneville Salt Flats, who was thrown from his bike in excess of
    225 MPH.

    In both the above cases, the drivers (riders) walked away from
    crashes at killing speeds, because they had proper safety gear.

    Recently, I had the misfortune of both witnessing and investigating
    the horrific crash of one of my (professional) riders falling at over 240 MPH.

    The resulting debris field was measured over 1,800 feet long, and the bike was
    totaled. Fortunately, the rider was largely unscathed, and was "back in the saddle"
    a couple of weeks later, traveling at simular speeds - but on the "back-up" bike.

    Rarely are street crashes filmed, so experts are needed to analyze the data,
    and to "reconstruct" the causes of the crash, and to explain how the crash could have been avoided.

    Watch Jason's crash here, and you will get a feeling for what Mike and I do.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImtEKiicus[/ame]

    Cheers,

    Live to race another day, and don't let Mike or I
    have to testify about how your Ferrari crash
    was due to "driver error..............."

    Scott
     
  7. DM18

    DM18 F1 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2005
    4,725
    Hong Kong
    Great post
     
  8. pr3par32die

    pr3par32die Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2010
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    Matt
    +1
     
  9. mspelt

    mspelt Formula Junior

    May 28, 2010
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    Mark Pelt
    Great post Scott. Susan and I still want to come out to the flats some time with you guys. Something I've always wanted to do.
     
  10. PenP

    PenP Formula Junior
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    Pen Pendleton
    I just want to know about the TZ750!
     
  11. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    Thank you.

    Ferrari Chat is an appreciative crowd.
     
  12. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    It does raise a fundamental question about modern roadgoing Ferraris, Porsches, etc.

    Is it ethical to build cars that do 200 mph and yet lack the safety equipment required on any racing car?
     
  13. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    Bryan
    I'm not sure about Porsche but Ferrari in Europe allows you to order a rollbar, racing seats, and 4 point harnesses. Not quite the safety equipment on a racing car but definitely more capable of protecting the occupants
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Texas Mile has a street class you can run a stock Ferrari with the addition of a fire extinguisher..

    I did 132MPH....:D

    No need to cut your car up,unless you want to...hurry tho, the Navy is making noises about taking the WW2 era air strip back (Goliad Texas)

    They sold it to the County, for a dollar......:D :D
     
  15. TZ 750

    TZ 750 Formula Junior

    Jul 18, 2009
    912
    #15 TZ 750, May 6, 2011
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
    In fact the Navy did take it back !
    (Seems some obscure group called
    the Seals unit 6 needed insertion training....)

    The plan is to run the Texas Mile
    at the airport in Beeville (Texas) now.

    http://www.texasmile.net/

    The Texas rules are much more liberal
    than the ECTA, but it's YOUR butt in the seat.

    I am familiar with the Texas mile, having
    set the track record at 251 MPH in 2004
    (to celebrate my 60th birthday)
    while riding a Street Legal motorcle.

    The World Record certificate hangs on my office wall,
    next to a copy of my Medicare card.....
     
  16. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    B.C., Canada
    #16 Peter, May 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It has nothing to do with ethics, but bureaucratic red tape... I doubt that they're up to a specific race spec (but would still be able to withstand a major crash), but Ferrari has offered four-point harnesses and roll cages for their recent models, but they're not legal in North America!
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  17. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

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    That would be a start, although given existing laws we still have automakers giving us 200 mph cars that won't protect occupants in a triple-digit impact (but do offer sat nav, cupholders and a b!tchin' stereo...)

    Ferrari/Porsche/etc. road cars have probably passed the point where they make any sense.
     
  18. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,896
    Gotta love the DOT. Saving us from the great debacle...ourselves.

    Our tax dollars at work.

    CW
     
  19. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

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    Art
    First rode one at Ontario Motor Speedway in I think 1973 (maybe 74 or 75, a long time ago). What I noticed was that the straights had gotten a lot shorter, and the track lot narrower. It was not a fun vehicle to ride, wobbled, spun the rear tire, and was very difficult to ride quickly.

    Now, with the new bikes, they are faster, handle much better, and the tires and electronics keep things in tune. Too bad I've gotten too old to enjoy them. Did ride a GSXR1000 at Daytona a couple of years ago, and I'm told was over 190 on the vehicle, but I decided that I really didn't need to go that quickly, and only did 5, 6 laps. The people riding them are over 200, and about 50 years younger than me. Getting old sucks.

    Art
     
  20. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    My 365GT from 1969 will do 150, and will cruise at 120 all day. Yet a crash at those speeds in that car would almost certainly be fatal (I suspect a crash at 80 mph in that car would be fatal). How is that any different?

    Arguably, the 1969 car is worse, since you may be more likely to crash when driving at those speeds than in a 550.

     
  21. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
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    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    #21 AMA328, May 10, 2011
    Last edited: May 10, 2011
    Actually, it's not Ferrari that'll likely cause law changes here in the U.S., it's the "__________" fill-in-the-blank generic $35,000 car just bought by the guy down the street. When any-car-any-brand has enough cheap grunt to allow drunks on Saturday night to get into trouble at 150+ mph, that's when things'll change.

    Yesterday, my neighbor across the street was blabbing about some 'merican car he just bought(I didn't look at it yet and couldn't tell what brand) that has FIVE HUNDRED horsepower(shouted from across the street).

    He wants to "run 'em" with my 328, which only has about 260...duh...

    I think the horsepower escalation wars have now bypassed mere mortals.

    Only thing I can think of that'll shut it down is the legislators/lawyers or maybe the insurance industry.

    All this, combined with a recent article in the Ferrari Market Letter about "no mo' manual shifters" has me wondering if Ferrari has left me behind, and it's now time to go more conventional with a nice looking Merc or Bimmer...
     

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