F1 boss Plans scoring revolution! Has he lost the plot!! | FerrariChat
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F1 boss Plans scoring revolution! Has he lost the plot!!

Discussion in 'F1' started by kraftwerk, Nov 26, 2008.

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  1. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #1 kraftwerk, Nov 26, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
    See a video interview here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7749751.stm

    Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone says he is determined to introduce a new scoring system that would see the driver with most wins crowned champion.

    Lewis Hamilton would have failed to win this year's title under such a system, which Ecclestone wants for 2009.

    "It's going to happen. All the teams are happy. The whole reason for this is I am fed up with people talking about there being no overtaking," he said.

    Gold, silver and bronze medals would be given to the top three finishers.

    Regardless of the distribution of those medals, the driver who won most races would be crowned world champion.

    The system still requires approval from F1's governing body, the FIA.

    Its world council - the body that would decide whether to introduce the system - meets next month.

    BBC Sport's Adam Parsons, who was attending the news conference where Ecclestone made the remarks, said: "Ecclestone said he was determined to bring in a radical new scoring procedure.

    "Instead of scoring points for the top eight positions, as is the case now, it would see gold, silver and bronze medals being awarded for the top three positions, and at the end of the season the driver with the most race victories would take the championship.

    "Ecclestone says it is a way of introducing more overtaking and says all the teams back it. In reality, it is difficult to see F1's minnows backing a system that would see them end the season empty-handed."

    Ecclestone said: "The reason there is no overtaking is nothing to do with the circuits or the cars - it's because the drivers don't need to overtake.

    "If you're in the lead and I'm second, I'm not going to take the risk of falling off the circuit or doing something stupid to get two points.

    "If I need a gold medal to win the championship, I will overtake. It's just not on that someone can win the championship without winning a race."

    The teams, through their umbrella organisation Fota, have made it clear they are keen to come up with new ways of improving F1 - and that includes considering a new points system.

    But BBC Sport understands that several of the teams have misgivings about the system and that these surround a number of issues.
    Massa would have beaten Hamilton to the 2008 title under the proposal

    Prime among them is that the new system could lead to the world title being settled earlier than has become the custom under the new system.

    The current 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 points distribution was introduced in 2003, partly to try to ensure the world championship stayed open for longer at a time when Michael Schumacher and Ferrari were dominating the sport.

    In 2003, the world title went down to the last race between Schumacher and McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen even though the German had won six races to the Finn's one.

    Under Ecclestone's new proposal, the title would have been decided after the Italian Grand Prix in September when there were still two races remaining.

    Conversely, the 2005 title - which Renault's Fernando Alonso won with two races to go - would have been decided in the Spaniard's favour only after the last race on a countback of second places after he and Raikkonen tied on seven wins each.

    This season, McLaren's Hamilton won one less race than Ferrari's Felipe Massa - but only because the Brazilian was controversially handed victory in Belgium after the Englishman, who had won on the road, was given a penalty.

    Ecclestone claimed on Wednesday that there were quite a few races Hamilton did not try to win in 2008. 606: DEBATE
    Do we really need a medal system in place? Why not alter the point system instead. Restore the four-point advantage you use to get for winning a race and be done with it.

    JKayF1

    Former team boss Eddie Jordan, who will be a BBC Sport pundit in 2009, said: "I think they (Ecclestone's proposals) are a nonsense.

    "I can't possibly believe he's thinking straight, especially on this one. His focus must be on cost-cutting and nothing else. The rest is just dressing it up.

    "The points are necessary. I was one of the team principals who advocated the points should go down to eighth place because one point is as important to those teams as a win is to McLaren and Ferrari.

    "He is tinkering with something on which he has lost the understanding. He thinks only wins matter.

    "When Hamilton lost the race in Spa and it was given to Massa, can you believe the controversy that would have created?

    "There has not been enough thought put into this and for him to say that it comes with the full approval of all the teams - I'm sorry, I just don't believe it."

    F1 is introducing a major change of technical regulations for 2009 in an attempt to spice up the racing.

    These include changes to the aerodynamics and engines to make it easier for cars to follow one another through corners.

    The front wing will be wider and lower, the rear wing narrower and higher and the number of aerodynamic appendages elsewhere on the car has been slashed - in an attempt to reduce the cars' sensitivity to aerodynamic turbulence.

    On top of that, the introduction of kinetic energy recovery systems (Kers) - where energy expended under braking is stored and reapplied during acceleration - will give drivers "push-to-pass" buttons that they can use for a limited amount of time each lap.

    Ecclestone made his remarks at a news conference to announce that South Korean electronics giant LG would become a sponsor of F1 and have its branding on on the international broadcast feed, timekeeping systems and graphics
     
  2. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    #2 bigodino, Nov 26, 2008
    Hahah! :)

    Seriously though, I agree with Jordan. Be has really lost it. Shouldn't he be in a retirement home by now? And isn't the points system up to the FIA and not the commercial rights holder? (I know, I'm naive).
     
  3. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    #3 Gilles27, Nov 26, 2008
  4. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #4 SRT Mike, Nov 26, 2008
    The thing that's crazy about it is Bernie says he is tired of people complaining about lack of passing.


    Witness Hamilton at Interlagos vs. Vettel... he was giving it all he had, and he was simply unable to match Vettels speed.

    It's not a problem of motivation to pass, Bernie, it's a problem of ability to pass. You get too close, you lose your aero, and you loss your speed and can't pass. Or your tires have gone off and you can't match the other guys pace.


    1) Reign in aero! For all the areas they neuter these F1 cars, they never seem to do much about the aero... it's become much MORE important than ever before.

    2) Get rid of the "must use one set of each type of tire". When guys are out there on sub-optimal tires, how are they supposed to start making passes? Let them change tires as much as they want to whatever tires they want.



    The whole medal thing is insanity.
     
  5. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    #5 Gilles27, Nov 26, 2008
    Agreed. Hopefully a return to slicks is an indicator of groundswell towards common sense. I don't like any rules that manipulate the racing by mandating tires, fuel levels, etc. And if they limit aero, think about the outcome as well. Do it in a way that doesn't result in strange-looking little rear wings.
     
  6. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #6 Remy Zero, Nov 26, 2008
    i think the old 10-6-, etc points system was the best. this current one is pure BS. hated it since 2003.
     
  7. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    #7 Gilles27, Nov 26, 2008
    I think they should "grade" drivers for every race. You know, A, B, C, D, F. They would receive an extremely subjective grade in 4 categories: Qualifying, Racecraft, Finish and General Sportsmanshipqualityishness. Drivers would carry a GPA throughout the season, and at the end of the year F1's Valedictorian would win top honors. The best part is, teams would take turns visiting Bernie's office to receive their end-of-year money, sitting on his knee like grandpa and getting paid per their grades.

    "Well, let's see. 4 A's, that's $10 million..."
     
  8. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 LightGuy, Nov 26, 2008
    The mega points Nascar system makes more sense than a winner take all attitude.
    F1 needs to encourage healthier fields by supporting the backmark and new entry teams.
    Imagine a only Ferrari vs Mclaren grid; Where's that remote control.
     
  9. Beau365

    Beau365 Formula 3

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    #9 Beau365, Nov 26, 2008
    If Bernie and the FIA are serious about encouraging overtaking, there is a much simpler method.
    5 points for the fastest lap !
     
  10. icky

    icky Karting

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    #10 icky, Nov 26, 2008
    Wouldn't it be unfortunate if, going into the last race, the guy with the most wins collided with the guy who had one win less. I guess F1 skill is only measured in race wins now. If you don't win, you don't matter. Good thing all the cars are capable of winning... err... wait...
     
  11. smart_alek

    smart_alek Formula Junior

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    #11 smart_alek, Nov 26, 2008
    He wants to prevent what happened this last season at the last race, last corner, last lap.
    The most exciting finish to a formula 1 season ever, and he wants to change it.
     
  12. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    #12 Senna1994, Nov 26, 2008
    The whole thing is stupid, personally I still think the best was the 10-6-4-3-2-1. Eccelstone is really turning this into a circus, something he used to accuse CART of. F1 his becoming like WWF.
     
  13. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #13 kraftwerk, Nov 26, 2008
    Yes Jordan is right.
    Bernie states he is sick of being asked about no overtaking, ok!!
    So when a driver like Lewis, DID overtake, a struggling Kimi like in SPA, he gets his 1st place finish taken off him, so what sort of signal does that send out!!!!!. Why doesn't Bernie address the inconsistant steward rulings for a start.

    One thing LH cannot be criticized for is of not trying to win every race, this is why it cost him in long run.

    Now Bernie has probably seen that if Lewis adopt's a points % view of racing it will lead to boring racing.
     
  14. smart_alek

    smart_alek Formula Junior

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    #14 smart_alek, Nov 26, 2008
    Maybe they should just let BMW, maclaren, and ferrari do the races.
    What's the point of having anybody else at the events?
     
  15. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    #15 rmani, Nov 26, 2008
    exactly. the solution is so simple idk why he wants to make this so complicated
     
  16. Ralph K

    Ralph K Formula Junior

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    #16 Ralph K, Nov 26, 2008
    It is official, it was on Euronews today!!! The driver with the most wins will be crowned champion. Not the one with the most points.
     
  17. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #17 kraftwerk, Nov 26, 2008
    I hope not, 18 cars on the grid what will the other 15 cars be racing for?

    If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 tifosi12, Nov 26, 2008
    Actually the points system will be maintained in order to distribute the TV money amongst the teams, so there is more to gain than "just" the medals.

    Personally I don't think it will make a big difference. Yes, Massa would be champion this year, but that's only in retrospective: If the drivers had known from the beginning of the season that only the top 3 pay medals and only gold counts towards the title, then they had taken a different approach.

    What this really means, is that qualifying and pole position have become even more valuable. Particularly for people like Massa who can't pass. I'm sure the Scuderia is now trying to put little fuel into the car to give him pole every race. OTOH the next year's cars with reduced aero force might help with passing and who knows they just might change the qualifying system as well.

    What Bernie hasn't thought through however is:
    This system makes it actually more likely that the championship is decided before the last race. Would be funny if that happened, then everybody will lament how great 2008 was when the decision wasn't made until the last turn of the last lap.
     
  19. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 Whisky, Nov 26, 2008
    Think about it:

    'A scoring system where the driver with the most wins is crowned the champion'

    Ok, here would be the system:

    Ready ?:

    'The person with the most wins is the champion'.

    Now, for the loopholes and addendums....
     
  20. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 LightGuy, Nov 26, 2008
    Bernie's management style: Change for the sake of change just to keep things stirred up so that the actual problem cant be identified. A crappy manager.
     
  21. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 Whisky, Nov 26, 2008
    'Racecraft' - who judges ?

    Likewise for 'General Sportsmanshipqualityishness' - who judges ?

    What may be a smooth move in the race to one person WILL BE totally reckless BS to another...
     
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 tifosi12, Nov 26, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
    The loopholes and addendums will be the Spa 2008 kind of decisions:

    The FIA can now hand out 25 second penalties and kill off the winner of any race. While they did so this year too, it "only" relegated Hami to 3rd, thereby still scoring valuable points. With the new system a penalty to the winner will effectively be a DNF for the title.

    I have come to believe that Bernie actually hated the idea of Hamilton winning the title: While he always wanted a black driver, I think his rationale is, that Hami is so good he will win several titles. Therefore the more prolonged the wait to the first title becomes, the better for business. Akin to when MS didn't score the title with Ferrari for years and years. The anticipation and emotional buildup grew bigger every year.

    And of course now Bernie's biggest fear is a repeat of the MS years earlier in this decade, where he run away with each race and each year with the title. So a system where you can knock the winner and thereby that guy's chances for the title, is ideal to control who becomes the next WDC. Expect more manipulation like Spa 08 next year.

    Clever man this Bernie.
     
  23. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #23 kraftwerk, Nov 26, 2008
    Ahh yes I believe your barking up the right tree with this..
     
  24. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #24 kraftwerk, Nov 26, 2008
    And this .;)
     
  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 tifosi12, Nov 26, 2008
    Thanks. I know I do.

    Sometimes I can just smell it how the seemingly random puzzle pieces fit snugly together. We had a WWF ending in 2007, we had lots of manipulation in 2008 and we will see more of that in 09. Expect even more bias against McLaren next year. Bernie's plan is "anybody but Hami".
     
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