F1 clunk in and out of second and failure to find the next gear.

Purchased my first Ferrari; 99 F1 Spider with 11, 870 miles a few weeks ago.
Car was used less than 1000 miles in the previous 5 years.
With all it's non use it had a multitude of small glitches. Thanks to the post on this site it's nearing perfection. I turn all my own wrenches and have a good level of experience with upper scale autos and turbine aircraft.
My problems with the F1 gear box.
Hard clunk in and out of second gear. Rest of the gears are perfect. Changed the gear box fluid to Red Line and no difference. If I shift below 2000 rpm or max rpm no clunk. Forget about the auto down shift or auto mode as it will clunk every time.
By clunk I mean a quick, hard grind/pow/clunk. My manual transmission days tell me it's the syncro, but before I go that route I would like more info on this technically complex beast!
Second problem; Rarely, but sometimes when I make the 2-3 shift it wont take the next gear! It stays in La, La land between shifts cutting the engine in and out refusing to find a gear. You can push the throttle, shift gears and nothing. After I either find neutral and shift again or the computer catches up to my previous commands (which it remembers up, down, etc.) it will come out of it in 4th, 5th or 6th depending on how many times I shifted in panic after about 5-10 seconds.
I'm all ears!!!
Thank you in advance!

 

Put 800 miles on the car and the problem of not finding the next gear appears to have repaired itself or it could have been me shifting to quickly. Slowed the paddle shift speed down to that of my great grandmother chewing tobacco and no problems.
Still have the problem with the second gear clunk ..... anyone else ever have this problem? Anyone? I feel alone on this chat site like the only straight guy in a gay bar!

 

Gregory- Have you bled the system to make sure there is no air in the F1 lines? Normally, this is done with an SD, but it can be done without one, if a bit time consuming. Juri just developed a tool I just bought for my techs (~$275) that simplifies the bleeding process. Works on 360s and 575Ms, but not sure about F355s.

I do a defacto partial change of F1 fluid (I use Tutella CS Speed from Ricambi) every year by extracting as much fluid as we can pull out and then putting in fresh CS Speed. This keeps the additives up and prevents corrosion in the system.

 

Terry, thank you for your reply!
I haven't changed the fluid or bleed the system. The engine needs the major service and I'm trying to diagnose and/or repair this problem before I pull the engine just in case it's in the transmission. I like to understand and learn as I go. Why do you think air in the system would affect only the 2nd gear shifts; up and down?
Regards

 

Welcome to 355 ownership, and welcome to FerrariChat. Sorry no one has responded to your questions sooner.

First off, sounds like a lot of the issues may be from disuse. Doesn't sound like the previous owner used that car much. The first thing is to figure out the general overall condition of the car (ie: is a major service due? If so, do that first) then to drive the car a bit to figure out if this is something that may just be solved with regular use. Do you know the status of the clutch? Since you have changed the gear oil, this isn't likely the issue. As you have no doubt figured out by now, these are normal manual transmissions with hydraulic actuation. So, it's really 2 systems working together, and therefore a problem with either system will be reported back by an owner as "car shifts poorly". This, by the way, is why many folks will disparage the F1 system as "too complex". Reality is, however, as long as you remember that this is 2 systems working together, both of which are relatively straightforward, it's not as complex as some think.

As to whether this is a synchro/gearbox issue, I cannot say. You sound as though you have good experience working on cars, so you can probably make that assessment. I will say that my 355F1 has never "crunched" a gear, up or down.

From the hydraulic side of things, remember that the F1 system needs fairly strong, consistent pressure to function properly. Inadequate pump pressure will result in poor shift/clutch performance such as slow clunky gearchanges, jerky starts (clutch release), and difficulty engaging reverse. Heat will exacerbate these issues in a failing pump. If that describes your situation, then you may need a new pump.

The last thing to remember is that since this is an early version of automated shifting (remember Ferrari INVENTED this idea in Formula 1, and was also the first manufacturer to bring the idea to street cars) this is a "crude" version of F1 gearchange. I don't think this is such a bad thing, as it requires more skill to drive, thus involves you the driver much more than later systems. Biggest example here is that the 355 has the same throttle actuation whether a manual or F1 shift model. Meaning, when the car is shifted, to be smooth, you need to gas it just like you would on a manual trans car: lift momentarily on upshifts, and blip the throttle on downshifts. Later cars (360 on) have "drive by wire" throttles, with automatic lift/blip for you. Less involving.

So, back to your car: maybe the easiest solution for you would be to drive another 355F1. That way you can do 2 things: 1) compare how your car shifts relative to the other car and 2) see how the other owner drives his car. Maybe you both can learn something from this exchange. I always wanted to do this with another 355F1 owner (taking each other out in our cars, trading driver/passenger seats) so I don't think you'll get any resistance if you were to propose this to another owner.

Hope this helps,

John

 

John, thank you for the time required to write that post!
Your correct; very little use in the preceding years. This car had a multitude of electrical problems at purchase. All were corrected with application of aircraft corrosion penetrating spray ACF-50 and driving. Slow down light went out after unplugging and spraying the contacts and ECU units. Turn signals both flashed upon a left input, seat switch, etc. Today 0 electric problems
The clutch was replaced within the previous 800 miles to my ownership. I'm a little suspect (my nature) and thinking to purchase an SD-1 and run a systems check myself for a better understanding and piece of mind.
Your theory makes complete sense as does the previous post. I'm going down the line of the clutch may need set up, system may need bleeding as the higher wear on the second gear syncros is showing up first. Every once in a while I will notice just every so slightly the same clunk when selecting reverse. Maybe one out of twenty.
Thank you!

 

Gregory- John has hit many of the issues. Remember that each of the gears has a hydraulic line that powers the shift fork, just like a three pedal linkage. It is possible for only one line to have air or condensed liquid affecting how it works. Low pump pressure is another possiblity, although that will frequently generate an F1 fault indication. One of the simplest things you can replace is the F1 pump relay, which has been a failure item on F1 systems.

If you do need a new pump, Ricambi sells a 360 to F355 replacement kit.

 

Hi Gdude - did you ever resolve the clunking in and out of 2nd gear? I have a 2000 F1 360 and I have the exact same problem. No problems at all with other gears. Guy at the garage suggests changing the gearbox but if there is a cheaper/simpler way to resolve the issue I would love to know. Thanks in advance!