F1 Clutch Job

He's (i.e. scud), collecting a lot of posts though...

 

Don't be so cheap and buy a good tool , I hate for you to work on newer models you play around with the old stuff , I bet your upset when the f430 clutchs came in one piece unit so people like you can't fool around with the setting , I don't confuse anyone and there no lack of knowledge I,am too busy servicing newer model Ferrari all you talk about in is your old 575m and early 360 , don't be so cheap buy a good tool instead of buying better feeler gauges and calipers, have a nice evening 😊

 

I pity your poor customers.

 

I pity yours also your just old school sorry to say, So tell me how you set the PIS on a 430 or 599 using your A/E software you can,t do it manual So how do you set it Terry

 

Stop being so rude. Even your Leonardo supports manual configuration on an F430 https://youtu.be/SkpuQxbPLgI

The factory do not officially recognise a manual approach on SOFAST2 onwads but experienced techs have found it to be more accurate in some cases than the kiss point procedure.

 

What your looking at the Leonardo youtube. it's not doing a manual PIS adjustment what your seeing is a adjustment done by the F1 ECU computer adjustment " it's NOT doing a manual adjustment your seeing" so why would you do a manual PIS adjustment if it control by the F1 ECU , I can do a very accurate kiss point by using my Leonardo system, So what so rude about that ?

 

I think I understand where the confusion lies - when I, and most other techs, talk about "manually adjusting" the PIS we mean using a diagnostic tool to enter a value (in mm) directly into the TCU. The word "manual" in this case means that the user is deciding what value to use.

The Leonardo, AE and Texa have the ability to set the PIS in this way - I can tell you this because I have done it with all three tools. There is nothing extra that the Leonardo can do that AE and Texa cannot (in relation to setting the PIS in this way).

When we talk about automatically setting the PIS, we mean running a command in the TCU (via the diagnostic) that ends up with a PIS number that the TCU has determined. ie: the PIS value is not set by the user.

This automatic procedure was present in early 360 TCUs. However, a totally different automatic procedure was introduced for later cars (MY08 F430, 599, QP, GT, 612, etc). This procedure automatically starts by calibrating a number of steps..

1. autocalibration of closed centre current for the clutch solenoid valve
2. autocalibration of optimal Dither current
3. autocalibaration of the dead band of the clutch solenoid valve
4. autocalibration of the current/capacity of the clutch valve
5. autocalibration of the clutch Belleville spring

This calibration takes between 30mins to 1 hour. Once it has completed a second procedure is run to calibrate the PIS and you will need the Kisspoint cable I linked to in order to do this - the cable plugs into the C-CAN connector.

The Leonardo simply does not have the function to do this. I guess when Scuderia09 does a clutch job on a late model car he simply leaves the old calibration parameters in the TCU and "manually" sets the PIS. Whilst this will allow the clutch to operate it is far from optimum.

 

Aldous

Thanks for the explanation ..kinda of a more detail version of my summary that I posted a few pages back ..The only thing is that .my conclusion based on some other techs ..If I understood them right ..Is that the manual pis adjustment is better than the SD automatic process you mentioned. I would love to hear Terry, Brains and your view on that.

Actually you already said that the manual pis adjustment is far from optimum..So if Brian and Terry can comment it would be great

Thanks



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The video shows a shows a manual adjustment of PIS, hence the keypad and data entry taking place. Why? Because it it can yield better results than the kiss point procedure, which is what you refer to as 'controlled by the F1 ECU'.

 

This above isn't quite right. The PIS is self-learned by the kiss point procedure which was re-introduced with the CFC231 TCU (late 360) and was present in all F430's.

The five step procedure you describe above is the DEIS procedure which was introduced on the CFC301 (MY08 F430 as you correctly say), but that is not to do with PIS - it is an improved algorithm to determine the clutch closed position and the characteristics of the installed clutch's response.

A kiss point procedure must still be run on a CFC301 TCU.

 

Well I don't call it a manual adjustment , with Leonardo it's adjusting the PIS through the F1 ECU system , maybe we're getting confuse as saying "manual "as a physical adjust by someone to the clutch unit itself , maybe that where we're getting confuse

 

Yes, sounds sounds like it.

 

scuderia- No, it is you who was confused. The rest of us know what we meant.

flash- I will defer to Aldous and Brian on this subject. They have a lot more experience than I do.

 

I think your still confuse , I set my PIS through my Leonardo tool into the F1 ECU adjust my reading until proper kiss points achieved, I don,t call that manual adjustment I don't "manual" adjust the clutch assembly unit that what your are referring too like you have mentioned on your 575m I do all my adjustment through my Leonardo tool only .

 

Danny you and Terry are saying the same thing ....You both do the same process ..The only question that remains which is better the method that you and Terry use or the SD tool fully automatic process which can only be done with SD tool and wire harness ...
Finalmente

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You can only set PIS using a diagnostic tool, be it SD-x, Leonardo, AE, or whatever. You can either have the diagnostic tool automatically set PIS or you can manually enter PIS through the diagnostic tool to get the lowest possible PIS setting that does not drag the clutch.

Pretty simple concept, really, and no controversy about what we mean when we say manual adjustment of PIS.

 

Yes Terry very simply concept, I keep trying to tell you that, but it ok for you to say I can ONLY manual ajust PIS on my 575M and only early 360 with your A/E but you can,t on later 360 and 430, but I was always saying I can adjust PIS with my Leonardo your calling adjustment MANUAL, So let me tell you again Terry with your A/E software can you "adjust" or what you call it "Manual " set the PIS on a F430 or 599 or 612 and new models just to clear the air.

 

scuderia- You never are going to get this right so I give up on you. Language seems to be a big part of the problem.

The good news is, the owners who needed info got what they needed.

 

Not much more to say in this thread.
Better to "lock" it than having insults thrown around.

 

Terry you never answer my question from my last post about your A/E , at least I know what I,am doing is right .

 

Get the x431pro 3 it has software for ferrari and its very cheap compared to sd3 ect.

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so if you have done the automatic setup - what i gather here is its still better to verify that PIS setting with the manual cable ?

 

Looked up this unit ..No coverage list anyway I can find other than it covers ferraris ..Do you know what functions it can perform ..F1 bleeding, abs bleeding, pis adjustments, reset brake wear etc?

Would be great if can do all that for 1200

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Heres a link to an overview of the app under maserati which is what i was working on.. https://youtu.be/GKS-vLU5SE0

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Its a hacked version that is out its an app that you can just buy the $60 adapter online and have high capabilities and scan all modules. https://youtu.be/GKS-vLU5SE0 i can give the software free you just need the adapter cant go wrong for around $60 and be able to acess all modules

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