F1 Creep in Gear (Any amount normal?) | FerrariChat
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F1 Creep in Gear (Any amount normal?)

Discussion in '360/430' started by CRF430, May 8, 2023.

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  1. CRF430

    CRF430 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2023
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    Cory Romonosky
    #1 CRF430, May 8, 2023
    I recently did an ECU reflash on my '03 360 in anticipation of the installation of a set of headers. Once complete the engine then had a slight flare on upshifts under light to mid throttle application. It was most noticeable with engine speeds between 3.5k to 5.5k. I reset the PIS from 4.93 down to 4.7. This improved shift quality back to normal but now the car creeps slightly when in 1st or reverse. I don't drive the car in stop and go traffic except on rare occasions and I usually shift into neutral anyway when stopped. My question is, is a slight creep normal if the car is on a perfectly flat and smooth surface? If not, am I right in assuming putting the car in neutral eliminates the chance for clutch wear when I do get caught in traffic? Thanks guys
     
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  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,937
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    Dominick
    #2 flash32, May 8, 2023
    There shouldn't be any creep even when very hot ..the factory minimum for your car is 4.8 .. maybe try that ?


    Reset your clutch wear index and monitor that .. ideally with normal driving to should settle in better 2500 and 3500 +/-
    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
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  3. CRF430

    CRF430 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2023
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    Cory Romonosky
    #3 CRF430, May 8, 2023
    I have played with a number of PIS settings and just above 4.8 the creep goes away... but the flare comes back.

    I haven't played with clutch wear index settings yet but will look at that. Thanks!
     
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  4. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    #4 flash32, May 8, 2023
    What does flare mean ? Unfamiliar with that term

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  5. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,781
    #5 mwstewart, May 8, 2023
    Clutch slip - mostly felt during set off or gear changes.
     
  6. CRF430

    CRF430 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2023
    32
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    Cory Romonosky
    #6 CRF430, May 8, 2023
    It would be like hitting the gas a little early while upshifting a manual transmission. Mine now flares two to three hundred rpm on upshift under light to medium throttle.
     
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  7. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dominick
    #7 flash32, May 8, 2023
    A good true bleed/flush may / can help and also ....maybe reach out to @360trev to see if a corresponding TCU flash may be needed to work together with the ECU upgrade. From what I understand they are tied
     
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  8. CRF430

    CRF430 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2023
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    Cory Romonosky
    #8 CRF430, May 8, 2023
    I’m leaning in the direction this is more a software issue that just needs to be dialed in. Mechanically everything was good prior to the flash (and feels like it still is), but to your point it feels like the engine is slightly front running the TCU. I’ll ask Sam if a TCU reflash is a possibility
     
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  9. Flyingbrick242

    Flyingbrick242 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 26, 2017
    677
    Northern AZ.
    #9 Flyingbrick242, May 9, 2023
    OP you're in good hands with flash32, agreed there should be no creeping forward in gear...if you connect a scanner you will most likely see low gearbox rpm when in 1rst standing stationary indicating clutch is not fully disengaged and rotating gearbox input shaft.
    360tev is a quality source for any SW upgrades.
    Good luck.
     
    collegeboy likes this.
  10. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
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    #10 360trev, May 9, 2023
    What exactly did you 'flash'.... PM me if you need help.
     
  11. CRF430

    CRF430 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2023
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    Cory Romonosky
    #11 CRF430, May 9, 2023
    I did the ECU reflash with Sam's help a couple weeks ago. Mine was the one that had to be done twice. I think you got a new laptop that weekend? Anyway I did the clutch wear reset today and the index changed about 10%. I just drove the car for 45 minutes and I have no creep in 1st or reverse. The slight flare on upshifts is also gone so I think we might be good :D
     
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  12. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2007
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    #12 collegeboy, May 11, 2023
    Glad you got your car fixed! I replaced the TCU in my CS a few weeks ago, and the revs flare slightly during shifting. Like you were pushing in the clutch but still had your foot on the gas pedal for a split second. No creep. PIS is at 4.3 currently. I was told to move that number down 0.1mm at a time, so I set it to 4.2 and will take the car for a spin later today.
     
  13. CRF430

    CRF430 Rookie

    Jan 30, 2023
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    Cory Romonosky
    #13 CRF430, May 11, 2023
    Thank you! FWIW to get mine fully dialed in I was actually doing .5mm increments. Seems happy now :D
     
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  14. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #14 collegeboy, May 11, 2023
    Ok good to know. Thank you.

    Mike
     
  15. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #15 collegeboy, May 12, 2023
    My sweet spot is 3.98mm. Shifting PERFECT now. The clutch has 65% wear for reference.

    Mike
     
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  16. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    #16 flash32, May 12, 2023
    Mike

    I am sure you know .. different versions of the TCU will have different sweet spots as well.. the early ones 4.8 was the lowest you should go ..as the versions increased the ideal PIS ( also recommended by factory) got lower - just a fyi so people do not think their 2001 etc is wrong at 4.9 etc
     
  17. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #17 collegeboy, May 12, 2023
    I didn't know, but now I do. Thanks!

    I took I tout for another spin. The shifts are nice, but if I give it a lot of gas from a stop, it revs up quite a bit slipping before it slowly engages. Maybe like 3,000 rpms. Sounds like a person driving stick shift, that maybe doesn't drive stick shift everyday if that makes sense. Should I bring the PIS down some?
     
  18. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    #18 flash32, May 12, 2023
    Did you do the creep test when hot ... Keep lowering it untill creep and back off a little

    Also record clutch wear index and then reset to see how you are doing ..i like 2500 to ,3500



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  19. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3

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    #19 collegeboy, May 12, 2023
    I did do the creep test. It was creeping at 3.91. Brought to 3.98 and that's where is seems to really like. Will do more. Thanks.

    Mike
     
  20. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    #20 flash32, May 12, 2023
    Reset clutch wear index and drive a little (city and highway circuit)..see what it says



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