F1/Ferrari fuel development questions for Shell's Mike Evans? | FerrariChat

F1/Ferrari fuel development questions for Shell's Mike Evans?

Discussion in 'F1' started by hairy_scotsman, Dec 11, 2013.

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  1. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2013
    1,134
    Austin, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Vance and I will be part of a group chatting tomorrow with Shell F1 Fuels Project Leader Mike Evans, who works with Scuderia Ferrari formulating their race fuels. Anyone have any questions they'd like us to pass on? We'll try to get you an answer!
     
  2. NWaterfall

    NWaterfall Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2009
    564
    The Track
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    Waterfall
    Certainly not a technical question, but I'm curious what they charge for the fuel..
     
  3. kylec

    kylec F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 9, 2005
    3,670
    Orlando
    What volume batches do they process? Is the fuel the same for each circuit?
     
  4. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2013
    1,134
    Austin, Tx.
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    Tim
    Shell takes over 2000 gallons of racing fuel to each race to supply all the Ferrari-powered teams. Then they take samples & use the Shell Trackside Lab in the Ferrari garage to customize the fuel for the conditions and the demands of the circuit.

    Here is a photo of me and Shell's Guy Lovett in the Trackside Lab in Austin this year:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2011
    2,181
    Great Neck, NY
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    Robert Nixon
    Probably a dumb question, but do they anticipate any different fuel with the V6 turbo vs. last year's car?

    Does the limit on fuel flow for 2014 change the fuel chemistry vs. 2013?

    Thanks!
     
  6. Wolfgang5150

    Wolfgang5150 F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    4,706
    What is the octane rating?
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    The octane rating is specified as high-test pump gas (?103 octane?). And the formulations are made such that when tested, the research engine "pings" at just the right compression ratio. However, this gas will produce about 50 more HP in an F1 engine than the pump gas it is supposed to mimic.

    An F1 engine will run just fine on pump gas, but deliver 50-odd less HP.

    The gas is a mixture of heavy high octane distillates like toluene and benzene and zylene mixed with light distillates that create the knock in the research engine.
     
  8. Wolfgang5150

    Wolfgang5150 F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    4,706
    Intersting Mitch; never really learned about the gas f1 cars use...
     
  9. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,881
    Atlanta
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    John!
    I'd like to know something about the changes to the 2014 fuels, and oils especially considering turbos and their requirements, specifically HTHS ratings vs visc ratings for the very stressed bearings in those turbos. As I understanding it, modern F1 oils are very thin, well they be able to retain oil that thin with turbos.
     
  10. hairy_scotsman

    hairy_scotsman Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2013
    1,134
    Austin, Tx.
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    Tim
    Again, thanks for all your excellent questions. I wish i could have asked every one of them. However, there were some technical difficulties getting the show on the road, so we were limited to less than half an hour with Mr. Evans. Rather than try to answer all of your questions here, I'll just give you the link to the video so any of you who are interested can check it out for yourselves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqiiuFv7HcY

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqiiuFv7HcY[/video]
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,739
    Modern F1s qualify on 3W oils and race on something like 10W oils--yes they are really thin.

    But how much oil viscosity one needs is also based on the clearances. Street cars tend to run 0.003" clearance per inch. F1 engines tend to run 0.0015 clearances with no per inch of diameter stuff. This requires truly good manufacturing tolerances. It also means these engines will not turn over unless they are brought up to operating temperatures.

    In these narrow passages, a light weight oil will provide just as much dynamic viscous pressure to keep metal from metal contact from taking place (as street clearances do in street engines with street oils.)

    I suspect that the turbo can be dealt with as long as enough oil can be run through the bearings so that the oil is no hotter than when running through the motor. That sill end up being a LOT of oil, and perhaps the low velocity of light oils can be utilized well.
     
  12. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,881
    Atlanta
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    John!
    I could see it as possible, but you're right, I bet it will take serious amounts of oil being thrown at the turbo.
     

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