F1 gearboxes:white elephant of the future?

I don't think it's a response to F1, I think there'd be a premium of manual over any flappy paddle option right now. Folks are just craving what they can't have.

 

If you want a 3-pedal they're harder to find and thus will cost more to purchase. I think it's as simple as that with an added flappy paddle fatigue. Unless its on the track you're not going to fully experience it. I think the buyers in this market segment are finally coming to appreciate that the driving experience with 3 pedals is engaging and they want that. It's not all about performance. unfortunately, there are only a number of cars that have 3 pedals that offer it.

 

There will be a point where the new generation does not know how to drive a manual car and will know automatics and paddles only and at that point manual cars will be ancient history.

Think of it -- how many find the Ford Model T transmission desirable?
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I don't think it is a stretch to consider the modern manual transmission a significant generational improvement over the Model T transmission. No one missed it when it was replaced. I don't think at least as of yet on year 16 and counting of the F1, that the same can be said.

 

F1 = expensive gimmick

 

Unforeseen maintenance issues would be my concern. In the grand scheme of cars, F1 boxes had a very short lifespan. Stuff will fail, parts will be scarce, and owners will fork over huge bucks.



Mark

 

A future business opportunity would be selling a conversion kit to convert F1 cars to manual. I think there would be a huge demand.

 

As I have ordered a 2016 Z06/Z07 I opted to stay away from the 8 speed automatic. I tend to keep my cars for a long time and future parts supply and servicing is a concern. My 13 GS has paddle shifters and I'm not overly concerned as they have been around for awhile now. The F car units may present future unforeseen problems with parts and reliable techs who can service them. The Valeo transmissions then the F1 units and now cars E Diffs will make diagnosis and servicing challenging in the near future. Someone here posted that Ferrari stops making parts for a specific car once the paint dries on the last unit out the door...
Yes, I'll stick with a 3 pedal car as long as they are available.

 

Another anology would be synchro-mesh verses non synchronized, I'm sure there were plenty of drivers shouting, "it is not a true manual transmission unless you are double clutching, or grinding gears". I would guess, that just like non synchronized transmissions, in another 20 years, the only people that know how to drive a manual transmission, are the guys driving classic cars. Bring on a parade!!!

 

What are these issues? When there's a problem there's an opportunity.

F1 actuators are already being rebuilt in a few places for a fraction of the cost;
Pumps and such are available for a low cost (common part number with other vehicles in some cases);
ECUs and such - oh well...still an open item, but people have taken things apart and flashed updated software (i.e. 360 CH Stradale on 360)
etc...

I think the bigger concern is when stuff really improves so much so that the shift times and logic of older boxes make them appear clunky and outdated.

 

I despise automatic/manumatic/sportmatic/whatevermatic transmissions, so read this with that in mind, but ... new transmissions are inherently more complicated and electronic than older ones and all of those computers, solenoids, system interfaces, etc. are going to fail at some point. Where will you and your prancing horse be when that happens? How will you get it back in the barn?
In my 88 1/2 Mondial one time the clutch slave cylinder ruptured. I was 210 miles from home, but I could start it in 1st, and with a little finesse, you can shift all day long with no clutch. Up or down! So I just drove home that way. Can you even start a car in gear anymore? I doubt it; certainly not w/ a paddle shift car.
More importantly, how much will such repairs cost? I'm guessing that in the 308/328/Mondial series there have been almost zero problems w/ internals of the manual trans. I have 85,000 on mine, and the thing is as robust as new. Total repair costs to-date? Zip. Not even a new clutch.
Anybody have 85,000 zero maintenance miles on an F-1 trans? I would like to hear of such stories!

 

The actuators and power units are largely being repaired with existing parts scavenged from other cars. That will not get better with time.

They will be harder and more expensive to get serviced and repaired as time goes by.

I suspect partially for that reason and partially due to demand, conversion to manual operation will be more common in the future.

 

A friend just sold his 575F1 at just under 70 000 miles zero maintenance apart from one clutch which may or may not count as part of an F-1 trans

 

Manual transmissions?? Didn't know there were so many NASCAR fans on here.

 

I know of several 355'S with first gen F1 paddle gearboxes and no explosions as of yet and these cars are almost 20 yrsld... Are they expensive to fix ? Definitely, but properly maintained I don't see why they wouldn't last as long as a 3 pedal manual. And parts for any manuals will become scarce not just F1... Just like some can't drive 3 pedals properly ,same can be said of F1... It's not everyone's cup of tea, but then neither is Ferrari...

 

I'm definitely in favor of 3 pedal cars whenever possible but I wouldn't pay an extra 20k for one...maybe an extra 10k. I have a love hate relationship with the F1 box in my QP ...the whole thing failed at 7500 miles and cost a pretty penny to replace..the auto mode is useless and terrible but on an open road it is a revelation..absolutely love it. As far as I know its pretty much the same as the one in a 360 which will probably be my next f car. I wouldn't mind saving $$ and getting another

 

Hi Jon,
for me the people are little crazy .....
people that never used a manual gear box now are crazy for that!
For what? for a pleasure driving? oh yes move the baston if good, but also the F1 gearbox is good.....
Some people think that in the future F1 willbe inaffidable and expensive to repair, and for that they want to pay a premium for manual gearbox, this premium will arrive to 500000$ for 599 manual ...
I asking: how many time i will repair the F1 gearbox of 599 in the future with 500000$? ......
DCT in the 458 was a step forward but also F1 was a step forward ....
The new DTC have some problems and the repair is too expensive ... how many person know that?
And if you want a 458 or a F12 with manual gearbox how can do? This represent a bad future for the 458 and F12? like the F1 gearbox? ....
At the end come back my first thinking .....

 

There will always be people who want to just get in a car, press the "GO" button and drive fast, letting the car do all of the thinking for them. (Nissan GTR comes to mind.)

Then there are the rest of us who actually want to be engaged in every aspect of the experience. Like they say, it takes a stick to stir the soul. Hopefully manuals don't disappear from cars completely. But it's not looking good.

I will hold on to my Lotuses for as long as possible. Six speeds, no power steering, no electronic stability anything, no traction control (on the Elise)... And the most true, genuine driving experience you can get.

It will be a shame when eventually the computer does all of the driving, and not you.

 

my quick 2 cents:

initially the F1 was an awesome revolutionary novelty.

as cars age, there is a trickle down effect, i.e. the less wealthy get them. many are diy'ers, and have less disposable income to maintain them. The more complex so the more expensive and less diy'able they are. F1 set up despite its awesomeness 15 years ago (and still now) is a financial liability.

 

given that
1. people who know how to drive manual probably will still be alive for another 60 years.
2. self driving cars will likely be around long before that.
3. the gen Y, and millenials don't care so much about cars like Gen x and other generations prior.

I don't think manual being ancient history is of any different than pretty much all current cars being history.
wasn't Keynes who said "in the long run we are all dead"?

 

Here, here!

 

+1 The F1 gearbox is the same as the manual but with some relatively simple actuators that are easily available and being rebuilt. In fact, thinking about it, for that reason the dual clutch gearbox may be the problem one for collectors. My understanding is that they are much harder to rebuild (or Ferrari just replaces them too aggressively). Time will tell.

In addition, for a sporting car, the F1 technology, while not as refined, is a bit more fun for many.