F1 GROSSER PREIS SANTANDER VON DEUTSCHLAND 2012: RACE

I watched the race on Sky and disagree. Nobody masters the dumbing down of F1 more than Varsha. And nobody is more out of touch than Hobbs and Matchett. The only guy who has a clue is their local pit guy.

 

+1....at some point, people have to recognize that the car has grown leaps and bounds this season. If it was all FA, he would have won last season with a true mid-packer. The Ferrari is the most consistent AND most successful car this season (i.e. has the most wins under Alonso).

Let's give Domenicali his credit...I, for one, have certainly heaped a ton of criticism when the Scuderia sucked.

 

I don't think anyone would agree with you that the Ferrari is the fastest car. Man to beat the past few races (maybe longer)? What? Let's break this down (I won't even consider Australia through Bahrain since the car was crap for that stretch):

Spain: Maldonado fastest
Monaco: Webber or the Mercedes cars fastest
Canada: Hamilton fastest
Valencia: Vettel much faster than anyone, Grosjean fast as well
Britain: Webber man to beat, Alonso benefitted greatly from wet quali
Germany: All the leaders were running virtually identical times, Alonso won as a result of no mistakes and the virtue of being on the pole. Fluky weekend with the rain, who knows what setups teams were running, hard to discern the fastest car.

The only area where the F2012 is head and shoulders above the competition is in the rain. That has been evident all year...the win in Malaysia and FA's two pole positions in sopping conditions. Fernando is good in the rain but no MS...

You think Ferrari has had the edge over Red Bull for most of the year?! Surely you can't be serious.

Don't get me wrong, the Ferrari of today is certainly one of the best cars, we can stop referring to it as "Clifford" or some mid-field car. Alonso is great but not THAT great. Mike, you know you can't stand Alonso so it must be a little frustrating to watch him be doing so well at this stage, but it isn't because he has the best car. He has a good car, and he's driving the best. There is a difference.

 

SRT Mike: I'm not arguing with you. I am one that believes Massa is a darn good driverbut it's clear that Alonso can get a lot more out of the car. He has all season long in every race, every quali session, and I think every practice session.

Clearly he's got a way with this car because if he just finished ahead of Massa's car each week, he'd be running 8th in the championship right now.

The car ain't that great but when their run is flawless, they give him a real chance at victory.

 

I just watched the race and it was pretty exciting. I wasn't too pleased with Fox's coverage. They kept showing saver driving alone while the front runners were running next to eachother.
It's great to see Fred dominating now. Ferrari has turned it around and are looking good.

As far as Vettel goes, I'm not sure about that pass. I don't think a demotion to 5th was fair. Why not just give him 3rd?
He did go off track and the rules say there is no passing off track. Seems black and white but maybe I don't know the rules enough.
The post race talked about Hamilton's pass on Kimi in 2008 which was cutting a corner where as Vettel was pushed off and ran side by side not cutting a corner. Seems like a clarification or revision wouldn't hurt since I see the two situations violating the same rule (no passing off track) but one was way worse than the other and both reviews a drive through.
It's kind of annoying to watch the race and read later that the results changed.

I'm looking forward to that. It'll be good especially if Ferrari wins.

 

Fox doesn't pick who they are showing on screen, the FIA world feed is given to all the broadcasters and that is what is shown. Unless its a replay done by the particular broadcaster the same camera is being shown on every channel in the world that is showing the F1 race.

 

No. If this was lap2 of the race, he would of got a drive thru which = 20secs. It was more than fair.

Err no one discussed 2008... Ohh Fox coverage (I feel for you )... Vettel was not pushed off. You can clearly see in replays that Button gave him more than enough room. Plus he had time to brake it wasn't a high speed pass it was coming out of a corner. They did dscuss Ham/Rosberg and all agreed that Rosberg was overly aggressive pushing Lewis off track at speed and not the same as this.

The only annoying thing is the stewards took 2hrs to make a decision. The system needs to be improved where they can make quick calls(say within 2 laps). Imagine a football game where the umpire took 2hrs to make a decision lol.

 

+1....i don't see why it took so long when it was obviously an illegal overtaking move. Vettel was stupid not to just give the place back. Clearly he had more to lose by not relinquishing his ill-gotten gain.

 

On the speed post race they discussed 2008.
Vettel definitely broke the rule there's no doubt. So a penalty is an obvious response by the stewards. I thought the penalty was a bit harsh. Why not drop him one position in a situation like that? I know if it happened earlier a drive through would have set him back 20 second but if the stewards are going to award penalties after the race, why not do something a little less harsh? I'm sure handing a trophy to button was not on Vettel's agenda. The penalties need to be more instant
Although, him coming in 5th helps Fred in the WDC by giving a little more room to Vettel.

In my last post I said something about a rule change- scratch that. It'd add to the confusion of rules already and makes things less black and white. Stupid idea.
What was the deal with Hamilton? He helped Ferrari but it seemed like he slowed up Vettel and did not give way to the drivers a lap ahead of him?

 

Just read that only 59,000 people attended the race. To have 5 Germans racing this is a pretty poor effort really.

 

Some pics
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why the photo of a red umbrella?

 

Now it's over, anyone have any clues on what might happen with the FIA and the technical working group today over red bulls engine mapping? Sounds like a bun fight brewing over it, Ross brawn certainly sounded annoyed yesterday?

Anyone fully understand exactly what the issue was? I thought engine map changes had been effectively banned during a weekend anyway, but this seems more to do with somehow having effect on aero ?

 

Ferrari sponsor

 

Anyone remember Eddie Irvine unlapping himself from senna at one point -Japan I think - and ayrton went to his garage after the race and gave him a thump!

 

+1

*Five* Germans, including the current WDC and the GOAT are racing, and they don't even bother to show up at their home race!? WTF?......

~125K on race day!

Seems the Brits tolerate a little adversity better than the Germans!...... Sitting in traffic for days, getting stuck in the mud, no parking, no problem!

Cheers,
Ian

 

Great stuff from Fernando! Pretty much like MS at Ferrari in 1996. Who ould have thought the F2012 could win 3 races at this stage of the season...

But i have a feeling that HUngary might go to one of the Bulls...

 

As I see it, Vettel gained a position with his car completely off the track, that is why the hammer came down on him.

As regards to Button, he is allowed to defend to the edge of the track, (first defending move) but then thereafter must allow room. If for instance Vettel had tried to do a switch back, Button would not have been able to defend to the edge of the track, (his 2nd defending move).

 

Anyone know if the cars were set up for wet or dry for the race? If I understand correctly they aren't allowed to change the set up from qualifying to race.
Seeing the changing weather conditions during qualifying, are they allowed to change set up during qualifying or is it also predetermined?

 

this engine map debacle will go on and on but we fans would not know it all as usual even the answer given by FIA y'day is poor

on a dry qualy dont think ferrari stand a chance for a top 3, things will get tougher for alonzo from now on