What effect does an F1 box have on gearbox synchros ? When oil is cold, a manual box (550) is very tight, forcing you into gentle shifts until oil is warm. An F1 box, which is a manual with actuators, will shift at the same speed cold or warm. One may argue that the box will match revs better, but the lubrication part does not change. => should one expect synchros to suffer more from cold shifts with an F1 gearbox ? Has anyone had to change synchros on a 355, 360 or 575 F1 ?
Have had no, nada, none, zero, despite my predictions to the contrary on 355's. 360's have had many transmission syncro failures but almost all of them were on six speed gear boxes NOT F1. No problems of any kind on 575.
I theorize that since the ECU matches the engine revolutions to transmission input shaft speed much more accurately than a person could with a manual box the synchros actually have less synchronizing to do, hence less wear.
Actually, I was hoping that Dave Helms might jump on this one. I'm a lover not a fighter. Thus, seeing me with any kind of tool in my hand is a very scary sight. However, from what I have been told the synchros on the 360 are very tough stuff, indeed. I don't know if the 6 speed has the same synchros. But from what I have been told the synchros on a Ferrari F1 are probably one of the last things that you need to worry about. Dale
My take on this is that the TCU controls the sequence open clutch -> change gear -> close clutch in perfect sequence and therefore no user error can mess up the synchros the TCU will even prevent gear engagement if it sense that the clutch still slips (is slightly engaged) due to miss adjustment The F1 + clutch should actually perform better during normal operation than any manual considering that it measures engine and primary gearbox shaft RPM the weak point of the design for me is pickup (starting from standstill)
Dale, I have replaced more syncros or transmissions for worn out syncros on 360's than all 328, 348, 355, 512BB, 512BBi, TR, 512TR, 550, 456, combined. All but one or two instances were six speed cars. The syncros on 360's are tiny, they work great but they are tiny. The syncros on the previously listed cars are quite tough, so much so that on many of the cars listed the total # of repairs is zero. But not 360's. The reason that 308's are not on that list is that although their transmissions are very tough there so many of them and they have been around for so long I have done quit a few. I would be interested to hear Dave's comments, he and I have spoken on the matter but I really don't recall his experiences. F1 and std are internally identical.
When the F1 system first came out on the 355s, the salesman stated that it was an attemp to prolong the lifespan of the gearbox/clutch/transmission assembly. I realize that the lifespan of the clutch is highly driver dependent, but I remember reading on one thread that the F1 is really not long lasting than manual system. In fact, they may have a even shorter lifespan than the manual cars. Can anyone comment on this as well?
The F1 was an attempt at two things. #1 To create a racing transmission with the energy efficiency of a stick shift while reducing the driver workload and at the same time have some programabilty for the engineers to fine tune it to varying conditions. They were obviously very successful at that. #2 Ferrari and Magnetti Marelli want very much to develop it into a cost effective, highly energy efficient transmission to replace the full automatic. They have already sold rights to BMW, Aston Martin, and complete systems to Lamborghini.
Chores are done, now I can play. I once again find myself in agreement with Brian. I remember the class on the 355F1 where we learned the sector setup procedure. Watching the sector slam it in gear I could only think about being able to over run just about every sincro in every car Ferrari had ever made with little effort. End result, never have had a need to split a 355 F1 trans. or a 6 speed for that matter. Must be our limited season here, but I have yet to come across a 360 with bad sincro's to date, and I have many hundred miles on the track between a couple of 360's. Call me old fashioned but I had a hard time coming to grips with the pressed on gears more so than the sincro's. I guess I am a spline kind of guy when it comes to gears on shafts. My concerns on this front have, to date, proved unfounded with the cars I service. After all of the ground issues were identified and understood I have found the F1 trans / clutch combo to be very reliable and predictable. The damn flywheels going concave has me a little concerned over the long haul. Dave
I've had a few of the 355's open but not for syncros and never for the same thing twice. It's hard to imagine those flywheels being so sensitive to heat but I can't come up with any other cause.
"It's hard to imagine those flywheels being so sensitive to heat but I can't come up with any other cause." Fully agree. If the damn liability insurance didnt cost so stinking much I would try to build a better mouse trap. Simply can not afford to do so for a customer. Dave
