F1 in the UAE is a Joke. Mike Lawrence Agrees

I don't understand the problem with F1 racing there.. The track was sold out and I doubt there will ever be a race there that won't be, and not only that but the track was perfect for tv in my opinion.

 

Mass tourism for F1 is fine in theory, but you just have to look at the races in Bahrain, Turkey and China too see that it has not been working in practice, mostly down to the fact that these races are too far from the F1 fan base in Europe. And you cant say that Istanbul or Shanghai are not attractive destinations, so its nothing to do with local attactions.

Your correct about Hungry, but its success has been down to its location and lower then average costs to visit for many Europeans. A road trip or a $100 low cost flight, along with well priced hotels or for most fans, track side camping, is a lot more affordable then paying a $1000+ flight and hotels.

There is a many purpose built tracks in F1, not just city circuits that lead to processional racing, Hungry, Barcelona, Abu Dhabi to name a few. I'm not going to say that the Singapore circuit is a great circuit, but they did well with the little options they had. Whats just plain wrong is that its more interesting, and a greater challenge then clean sheet design they have come up with in Abu Dhabi.
As for the Singapore Event its self. I would honestly say its the biggest and best i have attended. I highly recommend paying it a visit, its on a completely different level to " race around the concrete docks" Valencia GP.

 

And your point is? Quite frankly I don't give a hoot if a GP is not sold out. Quite the opposite, the fewer people there are, the less crowded it is for me.

I have been to most European GPs. Been there, done that. That's why I'm quite ok with having new places to go to. The question is more of a balance where the limit is. It makes no sense to me to have 2 GPs in Italy, Germany or Spain, but none in France. Likewise I don't see the point in having a GP of Abu Dhabi and a GP of Dubai, when it is the same country.

What is lacking is a GP of Africa. A Championship that is proud to be truly global cannot overlook an entire continent. Even the World Cup has finally learned that lesson.

Duly noted. One day I'll go there.

 

Maybe for your own selfish reasons you have stated you would like all races to have empty grandstands. But you will find your very much alone in that way of thinking. I for one, and most other fans i have met over the many years and races i have attended, go to these unique events not only to see spectacular performance of the cars, but to experience the electric ambience and to be apart of the wonderful carnival atmosphere.

F1 exists due to the fans, the whole infrastructure would fall apart of it was not for us. Holding F1 races in locations that have no interest in the sport, and have a very small possible market to break due to small populations ( UAE is around 6 million people, Bahrain is around 800,000) seems ludicrous to me, but the FOM only care about money, and are constantly taking the fans for granted.

 

I didn't say empty grandstands, but less fans is fine by me. Yes of course going there by myself is not much fun. But I don't need a waiting line of 20 people in front of me everywhere I want to go (food stand, entrance, restrooms etc).

That's why I don't care whether it sells out or not. And the reality of F1 is, that there is never a situation with empty grandstands. There are still thousands of people keeping you company. So let's not get carried away here.

 

Mate,

Do you even care about the on track action anymore? ... who gives a toss about what surrounds the track.

And you are going overboard on the facilities thing. I don't care if the pit garages are air-conditioned ... whoopie. Silverstone has held races for many years and lots of people keep coming back, it cannot be that bad. Bernie is just playing this spin to get his way ... because like you he does not care about the on track action either.

Why these so called track designers can't make a track that delivers action is beyond me? ... heck in the old days they didn't have designers they just made a track by joining up a few existing old roads and they worked. They should have whatever qualifications they have removed so they can not be involved with the sport anymore.
Pete

 

+1

also, they do have a considerable resource to sell when times get tough... The US can only print money which is back by the "good faith of the United States Government" (The worlds strongest Military if **** really hits the fan hahahahaha). We have no resource to sell when we get in trouble, we can only sell... well... debt...

 

Now this is all fine and dandy if us/we as paying F1 fans have stacks of cash to go and see these races in far flung places. Personally I don't have big money to lash out on luxury F1 holidays.

Yes I like to spoil myself when I go away, so I try to get the best I can afford.

So as to atmosphere fans ect, yes I have been to sell out GP's numerous times, brilliant loved it FA at his height in Barcelona sea of red, and a sea of blue fantastic.

No major deal getting in or out and fair prices, I go to see F1 races to soak up the atmosphere hear the engines squeal, It's about give and take as to the amount you can afford to the amount of luxury you get.

Bernie needs big money and he will get it of any daft sucker willing enough to pay him big bucks. Why because he needs to pay back the CVC loans..the average fan is bottom on his list.

And that is reason he after the oil money, so he better hope someone doesn't realize that the sums are not adding up, the oil well will shut pronto.

So to sum it up if money was no object to me and I could follow the sun, fine.

Then if Bernie announced he was hosting a GP on the moon I would book tickets on Virgin's Spaceshipone.

However as of now money matters to me and I would not go to UAE, I'am considering checking prices on Montreal.

 

Yes.
I do because the Bahrain track looks barren with no distinguishable features.

I don't care what the facilities are for the team, I only care about the facilities for the fans. And in Silverstone they are miserable. I know so because I have been there.

Your view of Bernie is too simplistic. The real problem in Silverstone is not Bernie but the BRDC, which blew its money on a club house for its VIPs instead of real infrastructure like toilets or actual grandstands that deserve that name. You can blame Bernie for many things, but not for the lousy infra at Silverstone.

You should know better since you've followed F1 for a while: Today's tracks have to follow safety standards they didn't have in the old days. That's why people died on those connected roads in Spa for instance.
Look at the marvelous track of Turkey. Schumacher called it "the little Spa". It is still possible to build an exiting track, but Tilke & Co. also are probably given some defined land mass and a budget, so not everything is possible.

I'm not defending Tilke here too strongly, because I think he could do a better job, but we also can't just blame him for everything. Part of procession race problem is the inability of the cars to pass. That requires a regulation change, not a track change.

 

Did you watch the races from China and Turkey the last few years ? There was multiple grandstands that where closed, not a single ticket sold in them. And aside from the seats directly across from the pit garages, there was thousands of empty seats in grandstands that had prime views!
For the last few years in Bahrain they have been shipping in local school kids and students to see the race for free, as they had sold so little tickets !

China and Turkey have both made it public that they are having to reconsider hosting there races, due to the losses there experiencing.

The local promoters don't get any cut of the TV revenue, they make there money purely from gate receipts. And when there hosting fee is much larger then there revenue, due to poor attendance , there business plan falls apart.

 

I would be interested to know what fan facilities you found miserable at Sliverstone? As i have found the facilities no better or worse then say Barcelona, a track your good self, if i'm not mistaken, has often recommended highly to fellow posters on this board..

 

You are quite correct about that, but there are still thousands of people going to these races. The fact that some grandstands are closed just bunches people into others.

Anyway, Turkey might see its last race next year. The contract is up for renewal thereafter and it is assumed it will not get renewed. Which is why I'm going to that GP next year to watch it while it is still around.

I have been to the GP in Silverstone and Barcelona and the experience is like night and day:

Silverstone is a nightmare to get to (unless you travel by helicopter, which I didn't) in the traffic jam on the motorway and then through the town of. Only to arrive on a sloped grassy hill to park your car and if it rained get stuck in the mud. Instead of permanently installed toilets you have to deal with portalets. The food and shopping stands have thousands of people milling around. The "grand"stands are barely a couple stories tall, which make not for good viewing. The track itself is flat, which only gives you a view of the portion in front of you.

Barcelona on the other hand offers bus and train transportation directly to the track. From the train station it is a 10 minute walk to the gate. Restrooms are permanent installation with running water, lavatories etc. All very clean and organized. There are food and gift stands all over the place, you hardly stand in line for anything. The grand stands are tall and give a great view everywhere and the track is hilly so you always see more than one corner.

 

You seem to be remembering the Barcelona track with tinted glasses! I have been to both Siverstone and Circuit de Catalunya many times in the past and in recent years, and the big differences you point out are just not realities. Granted, Barcelona is the more modern facility, and certainly looks better to the eye, but both meet the same standards for hosting there events.

There was a time when getting in and out of Sliverstone could be a complete nightmare, but since the new road architecture has been in place, its a lot better, on par with most other races that attract 100,000+ people around europe.
The access roads into and out of Circuit de Catalunya can be equally busy as the ones surrounding Sliverstone on race day, i have been held up for hours on leaving the circuit in recent years since the Alonso boom.
I have also have had experience of the train to and from Montmelo, and it is was extremely busy on race day, with lengthy delays, the train and station was almost bursting at the seams.
I found some of the toilets at the Barcelona track to be quite horrendous on race day, with little signs of cleaning, and not just on one occasion.

View wise, again there is really not much in it, your right Sliverstone does not have the height of structures of Barcelona, but i cant agree that the portion in front is the only visible areas around the whole track at sliverstone. Maybe you have never sat in Woodcote or Luffield, where Bridge, Priory, Luffield, Woodcote and the Pit Straight are all in clear site. Club is also not bad for seeing a few sections too ( Vale, Club 1 and 2 and the Abby straight).
Barcelona has the turn 1 section and the stadium section around Cruva banc Sabadell, the rest has comparable view time of passing cars as Sliverstone.

Your point about there being no waiting at gift stalls in Barcelona puzzles me, as both tracks have had roughly the same attendance in recent years and like all European races they have the same amount of official stalls, as its the same stalls that travel to each event, managed by the same people.

 

Hello, Just wanted to comment on the price of vacations in UAE, especially for something like an F1 race.

I have lived the majority of my life in UAE and still return as much as I can. It is not a very expensive place to vacation at. I've spent way more in London, Paris, Toronto, Milan etc... than Abu Dhabi. Dubai on the other hand can cost you an arm and a leg. It probably wouldn't cost more than 4-5k to travel, stay, watch the races, eat WELL and enjoy what the city has to offer. In my opinion this is not much more than purchasing tickets and travelling to see the GP at another location, paying the inflated hotel costs etc....

Personally I am going to try to make it to the F1 race in the near future, I think it's a good change for the city.

 

Thanks for that insight.

Could you please comment on the horror stories I heard/read about customs/immigration taking visitors prisoners for "drugs" they brought in. I have no intention of bringing any drugs, but the case of the business man who ate a bagel in Heathrow and ended up with some poppy seeds on his suit and got arrested for that as "drugs" really left me with a "Midnight Express" kinda feeling.

Was that a one in a million case? An urban myth or a real threat?

 

Don't forget this one Andreas:

Briton jailed for four years in Dubai after customs find cannabis weighing less than a grain of sugar under his shoe

>8^)
ER

 

Indeed. THIS is the kind of stuff that could deter me from ever going to the Abu Dhabi GP.

I don't understand how they're trying to build up Dubai and Abu Dhabi as some major tourist destinations while this is going on.

 

In the survey that I received asking about the GP there were more than a few questions about travel. So I gather that they are aware of issues, or at least the perception of issues, with regards to traveling in the Gulf.

 

Track design problem in some cases. Take Melbourne for example no car can pass there in all categories of racing, not just F1.

You need slow entry hairpins with wide exits so cars can dive up under brakes and then have plenty of lines to choose on the way out so they can make the pass stick. Fast flowing corners mean no passing ...

Also I accept your points regarding Silverstone, but it's funny even with bad facilities if the event is great people will come. No matter how flash the toilets you will never have a good race at a lot of the new tracks ... buggered if I'm going to invest coin to go there and be bored out of my brain.
Pete

 

I mentioned this type of thing two months back. When i was saying that Abu Dhabi will show the tourist side of both its faces. Read this http://www.uaetorture.com/
Thats one place i would never go....ever.

 

there was speculation for the final LMS race being in Abu Dhabi but it sounds like a good thing that they've decided against racing in the UAE

Carol

 

Thanks for the feedback, maybe I'm a bit of a cheapskate..

 

I know you made those comments and they shocked me.

That's why I brought them back into this conversation.

If it is all true what your references are saying, then the author of the article in the OP is totally missing the boat:

It doesn't matter whether the Abu Dhabi track has a boring layout or not if you have to fear for your liberty and life when entering the country as a regular tourist.

You're quite right about that and THAT is actually a valid criticism of a Tilke design. He should know better.

Don't forget that Britain is the home of motorsport and F1, so no matter what the facilities, the British fans will be there.

And just for the record: Despite all my complaints, I was glad I went to Silverstone. It is Silverstone after all, the birthplace of the F1 WDC and to this day I proudly wear my Silverstone polo shirt.

My point is however, that if I'm expected to fork over $ 400 for a seat, I would expect a clean toilet and a parking space to come with it.

 

wow what a thread...
The F1 race is only a small part of Abu Dhabi's development plans - merely part of developing the brand image they want. Just like the associations with Ferrari.

They don't want to be a tourism and business destination for the general public. Dubai can have that market. They want high-end tourists that will bring their yacht to the race, or those that pay for multiple seat/paddock club options so their grandstand seats are empty for perhaps all of the race. Such people will find it hard to complain about lack of something to do in nearby Dubai or Abu Dhabi.

The track and facilities were fantastic and will continue to get better by next year's race. It is amazing what they were able to do in such a short amount of time. The race was admittedly dull, but that is down to the state of F1 rather than the track and atmosphere.

"built on slave labor" is exaggerated. Those imported workers are not treated particularly differently from those US illegals that cut your lawn or clean your office bathrooms.

US customs and border abuses are magnitudes beyond what happens in the UAE.

 

I've sent an email to Australia's V8 Supercar series requesting that they rethink racing at this facility.

Pete