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355 F1 Issue

Discussion in '348/355' started by entberge, Jul 5, 2022.

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  1. entberge

    entberge Rookie

    Apr 26, 2022
    6
    Norway
    Full Name:
    berge severin andreassen
    #1 entberge, Jul 5, 2022
    I just finally fulfilled my dream of a -98 F355F1 spider, euro-model. It had old belts, so an engine-out service is just finished. There is however a problem with the F1-system. The gearing is fine as long as the engine is cold, but after a while when decelerating to lower speed it throws the gear to neutral and then it is impossible to engage any gear (incl reverse). When cold again, there is no problem. On a couple of occasions it has also stalled the engine when this happens.
    Proper electronic diagnosis tool is a problem on the west coast of Norway, so the mechanics are unsure of what is wrong. Bleeding of the system has been done repeatedly.
    A few years ago it had a 360 pump rebuild.
    3 years ago (1000 miles ago) it was noted that the actuator was loose with bad threads that was repaired. I talked to the mechanic who did this today and he said that they had no SD calibration tools available so this was not done.

    I have now read approx 50 posts about F1 issues, but still it is a bit unclear what is the most sensible strategy for me.

    Should I replace some relatively cheap parts first (such as engine mounts and/or clutch release bearing)?
    Other good suggestions?

    The 2 weeks per year of nice weather that we have around here is getting close, so I am very thankful for any advice!
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,323
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    #2 yelcab, Jul 5, 2022
    This is one of the issues with the f1 on a 355, there is not an after market scanner that is inexpensive enough for a DIY owner to buy and service his own car. Only Ferrari and Leonardo tools are capable of this. It would be relatively easy to read the error codes on the F1 system if you had a scanner and fix that system. As it is, you just have to guess.

    Heat related issues are more likely electronics vs mechanical. There does not seem to be anything inexpensive to do at this point. Clutch position sensors, gear position sensors are all electronic sensors you can replace and hopefully the self-relearning process on the 355 F1 will fix itself.

    Good luck with that. I am not really an F1 expert especially when there is no F1 scanner to provide error codes.
     
    entberge likes this.
  3. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

    Apr 1, 2009
    2,072
    VA
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #3 Subarubrat, Jul 5, 2022
    Interesting failure, I wish you were local! A few things. Motor mounts are essential to the proper F1 operation and preventing damage, if they are sagging or bad (tons of threads on this) replace them. Get the car in the air and remove the wheel/wheel well liner and really get eyes on them. Look for any signs of contact on the crossmember with the shift linkage, it helps to drop the crossmember (easy) and see what it looks like. You really need to be sure of this first.

    It is hard to evaluate this remotely but the theory of the issue being heat related is a good one, and another one I could offer that as the motor is pitching fore/aft from bad motor mounts and hitting the cross-member on downshift causing a missed shift, the angles being just right or wrong based on the motor mount being cold/hot as they sit near the headers and get allot of heat (also a cause of their incessant failure).

    In your case the two low hanging fruit actions you could take are first to dig into those motor mounts. Second, take a look at the workshop manual and in it you will find a diagram that shows the TCU and all the sensors and actuators that are connected to it. I would start with the TCU and identify each of the sensors and consider an order of which ones are likely involved and which ones are likely temp sensitive. Then get a can or two of cold spray for electronics and drive it until it exhibits the fault, then pull over and chill the crap out of the target component and see if the behavior goes away. I wouldn't just throw parts at it yet, despite the lack of SD/Leo gear you can still at least narrow it down to a pretty small list of probable causes.
     
    taz355 likes this.
  4. entberge

    entberge Rookie

    Apr 26, 2022
    6
    Norway
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    berge severin andreassen
    #4 entberge, Jul 7, 2022
    Thanks for good input!
    Yesterday we took down the crossmember and actuator. Not sure about worn engine mounts (no clear signs of contact on the crossmember), but new ones are on its way! Actuator seemed fine and without leaks when we tested it (but in a cold state). Will look at sensors hopefully today.
     
  5. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    23,334
    WI
    #5 WATSON, Jul 8, 2022
    Unfortunately, the best move forward is an SD connection.

    My car did something similar. It would run fine cold, but once hot it would not select any forward gears. It would just beep and drop to neutral.

    The solution was an SD reset to ensure the PIS and other parameters were properly set. It cost m $200 at the time.
     
  6. entberge

    entberge Rookie

    Apr 26, 2022
    6
    Norway
    Full Name:
    berge severin andreassen
    #6 entberge, Jul 14, 2022
    Update: Engine mounts are now replaced, engine now sits higher, but still same problem. I did the PIS/IO and octopus self learning, but during the last procedure it failed, and the electric motor for the main pump felt very hot (it had then had 10 min of idling), and the main reservoir flooded a bit. I also noted that there is no heat shield installed posterior to the main pump. So maybe an upgrade of the electric motor would be wise, if so any tips of which upgrade? I will also pursue subarubrats suggestion regarding the electronics, and maybe a new relay is needed.
     
  7. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,417
    Los Angeles
    #7 Targatime, Jul 14, 2022
    If you are missing that heat shield, I would do that first. Easy one. The pump is right next to the cat and muffler and is already sensitive to heat even with a shield installed.
     
  8. phrogs

    phrogs F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2004
    7,301
    Michigan
    #8 phrogs, Jul 15, 2022
    yeah I ran my car down the road a bit without the heat shield installed thinking I'm just doing a quick drive after some work, stopped for gas then it wouldnt shift so I assumed the pump had overheated.
    Installed the heat shield no issues since and that was like 4 years ago same parts installed today.
     
  9. entberge

    entberge Rookie

    Apr 26, 2022
    6
    Norway
    Full Name:
    berge severin andreassen
    #9 entberge, Dec 6, 2022
    Finally solved!
    Found a local "professor" who had a lot of experience with transmissions. No diagnostic tool to be found anywhere around here.
    He overhauled the octopus, but found it to be in pretty decent shape. He then inspected the clutch and found it to be marinated in oil (and a bit worn).
    Thereafter a couple of months waiting for delivery of Valeo clutch (from an european dealer who claimed to have it in stock). Gave up eventually and bought an aftermarket clutch (and HE slave).

    All in good working order now, hopefully for some time!
     
    JRD-DE and Qavion like this.

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