F1 or 6-speed

First off...I did a search and couldn't quite find the info I was looking for....so I'm posting this thread.....

Secondly, no offense intended...but if you haven't owned a Ferrari and have not driven BOTH a 6-speed and F1...then just pass on responding to this thread. I'm looking for solid experience based opinions, not conjecture based on what you read in a magazine or heard someone else say. Thanks!

Okay: F1 vs 6-speed

I'm about to purchase a 355, been looking at many of them. I've driven both tranny's and am leaning towards the 6-speed.

I know the obvious advantages in the 6-speed: less maintainance, lower costs of repair, many say easier to re-sell, etc.

F1 more competitive on the track, unique, somewhat crude in it's development in the 355, greater clutch wear, etc.

What I've encountered with Ferrari owners are many guys who bought or had an F1 because it was different. They enjoyed it for a while and then the novelty wore off...now they're back to stick! Seems very common a story.

Of course, it comes down to me. I really enjoyed the stick, I felt like I was in control and liked jamming through the gearbox. I'm happy with it. I don't plan to be in traffic and will be using the car for fun....so I can deal with it easily.

I drove the F1 quite a bit today. Now here's the question: I felt like something was missing. There was nothing to hold in my right hand (please, no perv jokes), no clutch and somehow I felt disconnected from the experience. Perhaps like an infant who needs a passifier, I just felt more comfortable with the shifter in my grasp.

Now...the salesman and some have suggested that I'd get used to the F1 tranny and I'll love it....but I just don't know. You tell me, please.

Oh yeah, one last request: can we not quote my ENTIRE post when using the "quote" feature. Just delete the irrelevant text and leave the referenced portion.

THANKS!!! Btw, did a search on valve guides: great info!!!!!

 

I have owned several Ferraris, one of which is a F355. When I was looking at different F355's I faced the same quandry. After driving both the stick & F1, I finally ended up going for the traditional manual. Rationale, IMHO it is about the total driving experience. For me clanking the stick through the metal gate is a core part of that experience and with the F1 box it felt that something was missing.

 

Personally I'd never own a 6-speed F-car. Being able to keep both hands on the wheel and having the puter do a shift faster then I can blink is what I like. Not to mention the fact that if it's OK for F1 then it's OK for me If I bought an older car I'd get it but since I don't plan on it then it's F1 all the way

 

My 355 is an F1 and I absolutely love it,My recommendation is go for the F1 you will not be disappointed but ultimately the choice is yours and as the 355 is such a great car it does not really matter as you cannot go wrong.

 

If you are going to track you car, where tenths of seconds count, I recommend the F1 transmission. I love it, but as others say, it is a matter of personal choice. Except in the UK, I think the majority (~80%) choose F1.
I have only replaced the clutch once in nearly 50,000km. It does take quite a while to learn all the nuances of F1. I never use the auto function.

 

No matter how hard you try , you will never get an unbiased opinion on this subject. I've driven both and definitely prefer the stick, but the next post will have had the same experience and prefer F1. (the only difference is he or she will be wrong.)

 

I'm the next post.

I prefer the F1......

The F1 is the best....... manual sucks. JKCO

Did we need another thread on people's opinions?

 

Opps...my bad. I honestly did a search and plugged in "6-speed vs F1"...I saw several threads pop up that were not entirely related, including a few that seemed distant...so I put up this thread. Seems the similar thread already exist. D'ohhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps a more appropriate name for my thread should have been "F1...did you love it right off or did it take some time getting used to?". Or "Did you burn-out on F1 and go back to stick?"

I know it shifts faster and is newer technology...but my right hand felt empty and I didn't feel like I was holding the car. Something was missing and I couldn't feel "at one" with the car: didn't even want to try to push it. WILL THIS GO AWAY???? I sense the driving experience is pushing the shifter through the gates....my gutt tells me to go with the 6-speed.

I don't suppose there are any answers, but to the issue of getting used to it.....any thoughts in that direction?

Thanks

 

If you're feeling disconnected with an F1 car, perhaps think of it as learning a new skill. Try driving the car like a kart: both hands on the wheel & operating the up- and down-shifts, right foot operating the throttle, left foot operating the brake. You never take your hands off the wheel, or change foot position. Every bit of you will be directly connected, all the time. If you don't already left foot brake, start by pressing the pedal very gently, then use it progressively harder. You had to learn right foot sensitivity when you first learned to drive, and it's the same with the left. The advantage comes when you use the brake to control weight transfer into corners, not just to slow you down.

I have a manual 456 and an F1 Stradale. Love them both. As long as the F1 box is a good one (ie fast shifts) then both versions are very enjoyable. Personally, I don't there is a wrong answer


Kevin

 

Steve R,
It sounds like you answered your own question.

I do think there is one other factor everyone should consider. Namely, the days of stick shifts are numbered. In the US, only 6-7% of all new vehicles have them, mostly sports cars, sub compacts and small pickups. Most new models do not even offer sticks. The 430 might well be the last stick shift Ferrari makes. At the very least, I'll bet if future models are offered with one, the price will be the same for either type. So anyone thinking they might want a modern stick shift Fcar might consider doing it now. I admit to being biased and I do have a stick shift 430 coming but I am resigning myself to the fact that sometime in the not too distant future, only classics will have a stick shift. When the time comes, I will embrace the paddle shifts, experiment with left foot braking, etc, but not now, thank you.

Dave

 

I have owned both and recently sold my 360 with f1. i can honestly say that I love the f1 however there is still a little way to go to perfect the take off in first gear as it is difficult to get it just right ie if you give a little too much throttle you seem to savage the clutch a bit and if you give it too little you seem to slip the clutch too much. The thing is you feel that you are unnecessarily wearing the clutch out. With the standard 6 speed you know how to look after the clutch and I am usually light on clutch wear and find it disconcerting that You don't have the same control. fwiw

 

Like it or not, it appears the "future" of Ferrari is the F-1, as the vast majority of cars produced are F-1. Does the factory know something we don't know?? For me it's F-1...I like keeping my hands on the wheel & shirfting fast.

Dino

 

I'm not a Ferrari liberal. That is, I don't buy into the conventional wisdom of the "evolving technology." There's a lot of new stuff on the newer Ferraris that SUCKS.

I don't mean to offend anybody, but in my opinion the F1 transmission robs the driver of a true sports car feel.

I drove the F1 and I thought it was the most horrible experience ever. No, I don't have extensive experience, but I have enough to say that I hated it! The thing did things on its own and didn't do what I wanted it to do. Yes, I knew how to work it, and I found the whole idea to be absurd, and so did two other people I know who test drove the car that same day.

In short, I'd rather do it all myself. I can shift a Ferrari gated shifter more quickly than the speed at which you eat the first slice of turkey on Thanksgiving, so I couldn't care less about the "lightning-quick" shift times of the F1. I shift plenty fast and enjoy doing maneuvers like heel-toe downshifting and double-clutching (double-clutching with heel-toe downshifting is especially fun, challenging, and gratifying ).

If you are buying the car to be a big shot at the track, then maybe an F1 is for you. I bought my Ferrari to be a big shot on the street No, just kidding... I bought the car simply to have an enjoyable sports car that I could drive on the street. Shifting is part of the fun.

As you alluded to, the F1 transmission will be a servicing nightmare in the future. The cost of labor and parts for the ticking-timebomb F1 system will burn more than a small hole in your pocket.

One more thing: the Ferrari manual transmission is the most unique and wonderful transmission in any production car in the world. I've driven as daily drivers the Porsche 996 Turbo, BMW Z8, Acura NSX, etcetera. A Ferrari requires fast shifting, and it's exhilarating; and when it's done properly, there's no jerking of the car whatsoever. The gated shifter is legendary, and until someone has shifted through that gate, he doesn't know how much fun and precise shifting can be! Oh, and the Ferrari clutch beats 'em all as well. My old 348 clutch is light years ahead of modern Porsche, BMW, and other manufacturers' clutch's.

I drove the F355 and the shifting is basically the same as on the 360 (though the F355 manual is set up differently--mechanical versus cable). I have extensive driving experience with the 360 and the F355 shifter felt exactly the same to me. These two transmissions are the best manual transmissions in the world in my opinion--as well as those in other modern Ferraris

Again, I apologize to you F1 people out there, but I'm communicating my honest personal opinion based on my experience to the original poster.

 

I think that you have to drive an F1 for an extended period of time to get proficient at it and understand its virtues. Those who opine after a brief drive haven't really mastered it and get frustrated.

This is the primary problem with most magazine testers, for example. I have never understood why they criticized its fully automatic performance. With my 360, I put 15,000 miles over three years on it and only rarely used that function. Once when I didn't drive it for three months I was surprised how far my skills had slipped.

To me magazine testers who don't like the F1 are people who don't have one in the garage to drive every day or week. They could also complain about the stereo or the lack of cupholders.

When I went from a 355 with a stick to a 1998 with paddles my first thought was how much more control over the car you have with both hands on the wheel. That's one of the advantages, on or off the track.

F1's demand more of the driver, not less. These systems make the experience more involving, not less. Some are unwilling to come up the learning curve or unaware that there even is one. However, once you do you have a driving experence on a whole different level in terms of reward. If you want to drive the car and not have it drive you and have sufficient skill I think you will love it. I would never buy another Ferrari without one.

 

LOL...didn't they make a movie called "The Passion of the 348SStb"????

SOLD. Something about your post struck a chord. I'm not the least bit interested in fast shifts or trying to be competitive on a track. If I wanted to be REALLY fast at the track...I could just hire a professional driver: some pleasures come from doing it yourself. Not in the case of sex...no, not in that instance...but in driving a sports car through the canyon and up the coast along PCH, yeah: the 6-speed is where it's at for me.

Just for info sake, the F1 in the 355 is said to be rather raw, whereas the 360 is more perfected. I'm not quite sure we can call the 355's F1 a time-bomb waiting to go off, there are many who have had no problems at all. Mechanics explain that it comes down to how you drive 'em. Either way it's a moot point....if you can afford the money to get into an F-car, it's splitting hairs on the potential maintainance of a tranny.

I've had too many people tell me my first Ferrari should be a stick. I've heard many sellers tell me the 6-speed will be easier to sell if/when the time comes. The ironic thing is that I found an awesome F1 car...and the 2 6-speeds I've found have some issues. Time will resolve all and I can always buy another Ferrari...

In posting this query here, I didn't really expect any answers to my specific questions....but I did (and have) taken-in a few perspectives that have helped me better explore my options. It's like arguing the flavors of ice-cream, everyone will have their opinion.

 

lol

That was very funny!

I'm glad you found my post useful

 

Not sure how many of the replies to your post are by folks who have driven BOTH stick and F1, as you request. But there are some who haven't driven BOTH, and I have to include myself among them.

I agree with the post by NONE, that the paddle shifters INCREASE, rather than decrease IMMEDIATE and DIRECT interaction with the 355's drive train under flat out or competitive situations. My comparator is my lineage of ownership of BMWs, an M6 with performance mods (325HP) and a supercharged M5 (close to 500HP) -- both being stick shifts.

While I am like YOU, born and raised on the familiarity of the the stick shift, gratified when my shifts are right on, etc.., my perception of my 98 355 F1 is that I've been propelled into a new, different age of driving. I'm a very aggressive daily driver and the F1 facilitates that aggression in a way my supercharged M5 (with shifter) doesn't. In the latter, I'm somewhat slower (though hardly a dunce) in my shifts, sometimes I fumble my shifts, and I'm FORCED to be more mentally absorbed when downshifting in tight corners because the 'cost' of doing it wrong is just larger than in an F1, where success in downshifting is more immediate. Minimizing that 'cost', especially over the long haul, adds up to a big plus at the end of the day for an aggressive daily or track driver.

A final consideration relates to diversity of cars in one's stable. If you've already got a hardtop (like a Porsch Carerra), and are adding a Ferrari, think "Spider" for diversity. Similar metaphor applies to stick shift versus adding an F1.

I with you happiness in whatever choice you make.

Shawsan

 

I have 3 ferraris 90 348TB , 99 355f1, 00 360 6 speed.

I bought the 355 f1 beause im 6'6" and found it impossible to maneuver my size 15 shoes in the foot well of a 355...but started to feel like i wasnt part of the ferrari experience..I know the real f1 cars are driven with the f1 tranny.
But Barrichello and Schumacher have 6 speed for there everyday cars. so they must want to be part of the driving experience.

My 00 360 is 6 speed I ultimately like it better, plus lets face I dont have the same room issues i do with my 348 and 355. other 360's ive driven with f1 is not as fun as mine.

 

I've owned and driven both - both are fun, but I'm going to order stick from now on, for as long as it is available. I didn't like the combination of 8 Cylinder engine lack of low-end torque, and the manner in which the F-1 engaged on a standing start, among other things. But I wouldn't say that my unsatisfaction with the F-1 was due to a lack of experience using it. I just don't prefer it.

 

I have been in the business of fixing these things since long before the F1 came out. I have driven both a great deal and am familiar with the technical and financial pitfalls of both.

Most (not by any means all) people that don't like the F1 don't have a lot of time in them. My mother used a typewriter until the day she died, never liked a word processor. Same reason.

Manual shifting will probably never go away with Ferrari, but in the future it may be the extra cost feature.

I personally like the F1 but if I was going to drive the car primarily around an urban/suburban environment I would have a six speed. The track or country roads are the F1's environment.

Many of the quirks that are complained of by people about the F1 sys are in actuality malfunctions. Most people on this board are pretty well informed as to how they are supposed to operate, however I have driven many malfunctioning F1's whose owners accept the faults as the norm. Many of both the 355's and 360's were delivered with less than perfect operation and due to a lack of familiarity owners never complained so it could be rectified. This is in my expreience the genesis of a great deal of the dissatisfaction with the system.

 

Wasn't this thread about Salt-water fishing VS. Fresh-water fishing??????

I'm going 6-speed for sure. I'm sure I can come to adapt, get used-to and become skilled with the F1....but I'm not out to race at the track or compete.

I hear both sides...but I gotta say: there's NOTHING that compares to running the RPM's up, hearing the shrill sound of the exhaust and then stepping on the clutch and pulling the shifter back into the next gear. That little paddle may do it faster but it's just not the same thing....it'd be too much like letting someone else have sex for ya.

Damn....seems like I always need to take it a few steps too far

 

Have owned a 355 6 speed for a year (9000 miles). Drove an F1 prior to purchase. Thought I wanted an F1 until I drove one. When set on full auto mode, on downshifts, it pounded into each lower gear, like when coming to a stop light. The current 360 CS blips the throttle on downshifts to resolve this defect (don't know when this was redesigned), but from what I understand, the car I drove was pretty much normal for the 355 F1. With the 6 speed, I can heel/toe to match revs, making downshifts smooth, and with a LOT less impact on the clutch, or just coast to the light. Only if I was buying a car to track would I go with the F1 in a 355. I believe that at some point of the 360 model years the F1 was improved to shift more like a skilled stick driver.

 

360 was designed to do that from unit #1. On the 355s manual blipping of the throttle was the order of the day. The 355 actually does it through the idle/stepper motors but their air flow capacity was not enough to be meaningful. It was not until the electronic throttles came along that speed matching was really possible.

 

Of course to each, his own. However I've driven a number of Ferraris(and come to think of it, every performance car available barr the Enzo, CGT/SLR class) both with the 6 speed and F1 over the last couple of years and I have to say I do not think Ferrari or Lambo for that matter,make good manual gearboxes(OK guys don't all come crashing down on me at once!) They are not fun, they crunch, they're slow and have too long a travel for the shift. I cannot understand how some of you say that the "F1 box is probably better for the track". This is silly. If you drive your Fcar, let's just say spirited, then you DO want your gearchanges quick but you also want them smooth. Any Fcar with a 6 speed that I have driven has not in my opinion been that great. Sure the F1 is not perfect but it still allows you IMO to have more fun(at least in my CS it does) in an overall experience,than most manual gearboxes. The only exception I will say to this is the new Porsche 997 gearbox. It is honestly the best 6 speed gearbox I have ever tried. It is quick, accurate and smooth. Fantastic! If the CS came out in this particular gearbox I would have no qualms about getting one.

Now please join in an orderly line to flame me! thank you

Alex

 

Well..since I started this thread I suppose the responsibility falls upon me to initiate the flaming process.

Uh....Stradman: YOU ARE FLAMED!!!!

Please tend to your own charbroiled needs. Figure 10-minutes per pound and marinate in power steering fluid. Drive a Hyundai till done.....