F1 Perished Heroes.

RIP to all of the great drivers of f1who died in a race, still saddens me to see sennas reck at imola

 

Thanks for posting the video. It reminds me of a term paper that I did in High School circa 1960, titled "The most dangerous sport" about f1 and road racing deaths. The deaths at LeMans ie 1955 and at the Targa and Milla were also terrible due to the number of spectators also killed.

The sport has changed a lot.

Steve

 

I doubt it has been posted here before, but I saw it in 2004 on a racing forum.

 

What pisses me off the most about these videos is how bad the response was to fires. Utterly hopeless.

I don't know what sort of extinguishing system they had back then, but all it seemed to do was spread the fire and make it worse.

Obviously the cars themselves were very dangerous, with large, weak fuel tanks surrounding the drivers and in some cases between the drivers legs, but better response would have saved the lives of all those drivers who died in fires.

Every one of those accidents would have been survivable by today's standards, except for Tom Pryce, when that stupid marshal ran out in front of his car. You could see the marshal getting splattered in the video, but the fatal injuries caused to Pryce were a result of getting hit in the head with the fire extinguisher the marshal was carrying. I don't know whether modern helmets would have prevented instant death in that situation (I don't know what speed Pryce was going), but I doubt it, and there would be no chance of survival if the impact was through the visor.

 

I am just thankfull the videos ended in 1994!

 

My first F1 hero was Bandini. I remember that accident. And most of them since then.

I was at the Glen when Francois and the Count were killed. Who posted this thread?

 

Now we have touched a nerve with me - fire safety.

I very good friend of mine died at a local track 6 years ago, he was strapped in his car on its' side, burning, for 3 min. and 50 seconds.
They had a fire crew at the track - in fact the local volunteer FD, truck and all.
So what's the problem here ?

They didn't realize racing gas burns a helluva lot hotter than pump gas, they didn't have the right stuff. AAAF foam takes much too long to deploy, ABC doesn't work, and they didn't have either any or enough Co2 extinguishers.

The cap on the fuel cell had a larger pin-hole leak, and it sprayed fuel directly into the cockpit under pressure. He was knocked unconscious and could not get out by himself. The accident was caused by a guy 'shoving him' out of the way exiting turn 2 of a corner (oval), his car rolled several times, and came to rest on the banking, with the fuel running down the banking and thru the cockpit (roof).
The sad part ? Besides the burns, all he suffered was a broken nose - nothing else. I was told the folowing day the car only lost 5 gallons of fuel.

What came of this ?

Well, besides lawsuits, everyone now uses fire extinguishers that have the chemical 'PURPLE K' in them, it is the standard of the gas and oil industry. If you are in a legit racing car, what else is there to burn ?

Yes, I am telling you, if you take racing seriously, if you do serious work on your cars in the garage, go get a 20 lb self-contained Purple K extinguisher. It may cost you $300-350, less than a helmet. AND you can use it at home, in the hauler, and at the track.

GET ONE. Get a self-contained 20-pounder, and also get a 10-pounder.
Self-contained have a pressure cartridge on the side which pressurizes the extinguisher when you pull the trigger, the non-self contained are just internally pressurized units. Get either, because either is better then none.
One thing is for absolute sure - ABC dry chemical doesn't work well on a pure gas fire, and especially a racing gas fire.

 

Now we have touched a nerve with me - fire safety.

A very good friend of mine died at a local track 6 years ago, he was strapped in his car on its' side, burning, for 3 min. and 50 seconds.
They had a fire crew at the track - in fact the local volunteer FD, truck and all.
So what's the problem here ?

They didn't realize racing gas burns a helluva lot hotter than pump gas, they didn't have the right stuff. AAAF foam takes much too long to deploy, ABC doesn't work, and they didn't have either any or enough Co2 extinguishers.

The cap on the fuel cell had a larger pin-hole leak, and it sprayed fuel directly into the cockpit under pressure. He was knocked unconscious and could not get out by himself. The accident was caused by a guy 'shoving him' out of the way exiting turn 2 of a corner (oval), his car rolled several times, and came to rest on the banking, with the fuel running down the banking and thru the cockpit (roof).
The sad part ? Besides the burns, all he suffered was a broken nose - nothing else. I was told the following day the tank only lost 3 gallons of fuel.

What came of this ?

Well, besides lawsuits, everyone now uses fire extinguishers that have the chemical 'PURPLE K' in them, it is the standard of the gas and oil industry. If you are in a legit racing car, what else is there to burn ?

Yes, I am telling you, if you take racing seriously, if you do serious work on your cars in the garage, go get a 20 lb self-contained Purple K extinguisher. It may cost you $300-350, less than a helmet. AND you can use it at home, in the hauler, and at the track.

GET ONE. Get a self-contained 20-pounder, and also get a 10-pounder.
Self-contained have a pressure cartridge on the side which pressurizes the extinguisher when you pull the trigger, the non-self contained are just internally pressurized units. Get either, because either is better than none.
One thing is for absolute sure - ABC dry chemical doesn't work well on a pure gas fire, and especially a racing gas fire.

 

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Probably one of the worst incidents I've seen was when that Japanese driver in an F355 Challenge from 1998 (at Sugo IIRC) got severely burnt due to the incompetance of the marshals. He sued but didn't get what he deserved IMO. There was a thread on here about it a while back.

You're preaching to the choir my friend.

I've only ever raced open-wheelers on closed circuits, so using an extinguisher isn't possible for me. However, I've never skimped on safety - my helmet alone was $2000.

I do advocate fire extinguishers for home use though. Alot of houses could have been prevented from getting burnt down while waiting for fire engines if the occupants had an extinguisher or two. Same goes for road cars.

 

I agree that it is sad when a F1 driver dies,but they are far from "Heroes"...they are mere entertainers and athletes...

 

Mike,

Thanks for posting that link... It's really sad though. Lets all hope for a safe season.

Everyone should take time to see that video...

Simon

 

To many people they are heroes so please don't discredit the drivers by calling them mere entertainers. An actor or actress is an entertainer, these men are some of the best drivers who have ever lived. They are great athletes as wells as unbelievably brave men to race in the equipment they did. While I don't believe you meant any disrespect, please don't insult these men by saying they weren't heroes, because to me they were and are.

Mark

 

Nope - I'm not preaching to a choir, I know a driver cannot use an extinguisher when HE is involved in a fire, for several reasons. I had another friend that suffered burns on his arms when he flipped his car, it landed on its' roof, there was a fire, and he finally got out of the car. He said (and you already know this 'Finding an extinguisher while strapped in a car upside down is the LAST thing on your mind - it's not even ON your mind - getting OUT is'.

What I meant by 'get a PK unit' was if there is a crash in the vicinity of you, it's better to get there 30 seconds late, as opposed to not at all. I also understand we are talking longer road courses here, and my friends were all hurt on 1/2 mile dirt ovals where your crew is not far away, and most of them have ATV's. I know having a crewman on the track isn't good, but neither is the alternative. They are also good to have in your garage or hauler.

Here's another story:

After my friend was killed, there was a movement to get PK to all of the tracks in the area (500 mile radius) - all it would take is just two of them.
So two years after my friend died, I was at a BIG track about 120 miles away, for a 'big' race, and I was taking pictures in the infield.

There was a fire crew in a jeep not far from me, so during a break, I went over and talked to them. One guy was a fireman in a large city, the other was a fireman in a small city, both paid, not volunteer.
I asked them 'what do you have for extinguishers ?'
The answer: water.
I say 'why in the hell do you have WATER, that's WORTHLESS !'
The answer:
'They don't pay us to bring anything else'.

I got sick.

 

great video!!

 

James,

Everything that is new has to be learnt. When motorsport started they didn't think of everything, and how can they. Unfortunately accidents, etc. have to happen before either new designs are created or things changed. Over the years we have learnt many things, now we have bag tanks, we have piped in fire extinguisher systems, we have flag marshells, etc.

The sad part is that it simply took so long and really took somebody like Jackie Stewart to wake up the sport, but you cannot really blame anybody ... it was just the pursuit of speed that drove people involved ... not the pursuit of the safest car, etc.

As the sport matured and we found strong and thus safer products like carbon fibre things just naturally got better ... but we would NOT have the sport if they had sat down and stated in the rules that the chassis must survive a X type impact from direction A, B and C back in 1902.

Now that we know how to make cars fast ... and thus the process to create fast car has disappointingly become hohum ... we can put a heck of a lot more energy into safety.

It will always be dangerous and drivers and participants always need to understand that ... otherwise stay away, because there is nothing sadder than an innocent being harmed doing something they did not want to do.

Pete
ps: This is why motorsports like the Cannon Ball run annoy me as they involve the innocent, and also why events like the Targa Tasmania, etc. thread a very fine line with difficult spectator issues ... because it is basically a road race.

 

I read an article yesterday, in the new issue #6 of the British publication Motor Sport, where Jackie Stewart is quoted as saying: "(Francois) Cevert wasn't a Raikkonen or a Montoya, he was like a Michael Schumacher".

I chatted with Cevert at the Glen during the USGP for about an hour. He autographed a photo I took of him in the Gitanes Matra. The one that made my ears bleed. Everyone else was chopped liver to the women that walked by. I remember standing on top of the Tyrrell pit box during Saturday practice and seeing Stewart come rushing in and grabbing Jean Pierre Beltoise wife. I heard later she was Francois' sister. I never felt so bad at a race as I did that day. I went back to my motel, and wondered if I could cover the race the next day. Or ever go to another motor race. This is where the word that rhymes with luck seemed appropriate.

What a terrible weekend. Those ridiculous guard rails at the Glen, what were they thinking?

We lost two F1 drivers that day.

 

Guys you are taking this to far. Motor racing is dangerous, we cannot prevent everything. They do the very best with safety now, but if we go to far we kill the sport. If you cannot handle this ... change sports.

I was sad when Senna died, but I am absolutely sure Senna would not change a thing if he could live his life again. He lived the racers life and loved it!

The absolute worst death is a spectator. They did not sign up and agree to the danger as a driver does ... they just went along to be entertained. The worst of the worst would be a child spectator dragged along because a parent wanted to watch racing ... how sad .

Also if we make the cars too safe, you end up with over confident drivers using them as weapons ... like the British Touring Car Championship.

I've not heard of this???. Ryan Briscoe had such a big testing accident that he can no longer drive an F1 car ... hopefully this will change with time, and thus Toyota dropped him.

Alberetto ofcourse died testing a Audi Le Mans car ... .
Pete

 

This reminds me of that movie/doucmentary called "The Quick And The Dead". Not the western with the same name, but a film about F1 from the 70's.

I know that film is available on DVD, not sure of the source.

 

The most upsetting part of that video is if you know that Roger Williamson was pleading with Dave Purley to help him get out of the car as the marshalls watched the fire build, can’t really understand how purley must have felt as his friend and team mate died in front of him whilst the marshals just looked on……..Dave Purley was later awarded the George Cross for bravery……..a man who was very very deserving of that medal.

At least most of us have decent fire extinguishers at the track these days

 

This video made my stomach turn upside down...

 

On his way to the various Grand Prixs (or is it correct tos Grands Prix?), Senna would fly his own airplane into Miami for a stop over. He did two things while in Miami. He would call Nino Pernetti to come to the Grand Bay Hotel to pick him for dinner at Nino's restaurant in Coral Gables called Caffe Abbracci, and he would go to the now defunct Orange Blossum Hobbies near the airport to pick the latest in R/C cars. He enjoyed both.

Many a driver frequents Caffe Abbracci while in Miami: Piquet, Lauda, Andretti, Newman, Alesi, etc.