News

F1 spending break down, check it out:

Discussion in 'F1' started by Jameel, May 6, 2005.

  1. Jameel

    Jameel Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    401
    Canada
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,317
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    I'm putting together a spread sheet for this info... stay tuned.
     
  4. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    But they are killing Engine development in 2006 for the sake of cutting costs.

    Have you seen the rules? They are extremely restrictive
     
  5. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2004
    1,709
    Above 2240m
    Full Name:
    Fernando
    It would be interesting to see how the total spending has increased in the last few years.
     
  6. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,317
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    Ok, I'm having a problem getting it into a format to post. I have it on Excel. Any Ideas on how to post it? I can't save it as a pic (JPG, BitMap, ect...). I have it as a web page but the HTML doesn't post here properly. :confused:

    Any Ideas?
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    The costs are down if you compare to what Honda spent when they came back with McClaren and dominated for a number of years.........I heard $900 million on engine R&D alone....not including any manufacturing cost of the engines.
     
  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    13,217
    Where exactly did they get those numbers from? I heard that Toyota was spending upward of a Billion (yes, a B) a year ago and Ferrari was hovering around $600m.

    I suggest taking a screen shot of the Excel table (Prnt Scrn) and paste it into MS Paint. Then cut out the parts you don't want and host the image on www.imageshack.us as a JPEG.
     
  10. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 7, 2003
    16,536
    Full Name:
    J3L2404
    For future reference.











     
  11. mrdigital

    mrdigital Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    515
    Nashville
    Don't want to hijack the thread but what does NASCAR spend?
    I'm trying to show my friend f1 is bigger than nascar.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 7, 2003
    16,536
    Full Name:
    J3L2404
    Top teams spend around 10 million. You can get on the oval for a lot less though.
     
  14. mrdigital

    mrdigital Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    515
    Nashville
    I was hoping i could find a breakdown like the F1 teams.
     
  15. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    They spend way more than that. A mid pack team spends 10 mil easy.
     
  16. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    31,325
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    This makes Jordan look like a F1 bargain
     
  17. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,317
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    BMWWilliams.. I can't get that to work. I'll email it to someone who thinks they can get it up...
     
  18. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    13,217
    #15 BMW.SauberF1Team, May 6, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2008
    $10mm for a mid-Nascar pack?!? Are you sure, I was thinking maybe $5mm tops and $10mm for the big guys. I'm excluding costs of corporate entertainment though...Just to make sure, are we talking about team costs (i.e. DEI) or the cost for a single driver/car? I'm talking about the team.

    You can e-mail me at
     
  19. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    2,572
    Pacific NW
    Full Name:
    Anthony C.
    Without actually sitting down and crutch out all the numbers, it seems to me that if you were to take out the team salaries, driver's salaries, entertaining cost and the travel accommondations, Ferrari will not be that far ahead of other teams. I mean let's focus only on car/engine R&Ds only, as needless to say, it is obivous that you are not going to pay C. Klein the same salary as you would with M. Schumi. Also, does this list include what Mercedes, BMW and Honda spend on their own as in their own engine R&D?
     
  20. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
    Full Name:
    Jean
    Interesting numbers!
    Thank you.
     
  21. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,317
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    All numbers are in Millions. Last FINAL COST column is their numbers. I pulled all the other numbers from their site and as you can see some of the final numbers don't match up for a few teams.
    [​IMG]

    Thank you BMWWilliams for all your help!
     
  22. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    #19 speedmoore, May 6, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2008
    I'm absolutely sure. Know some top teams budgets....which at not liberty to declare....but they are in the $20 mil area.

    It doesn't go very far. The professional "road race" teams I've managed in the past 10 years.....we'd be happy to get $2M and usually only have 5 full time guys. How many guys do you think those NASCAR teams have and how many CNC machines working around the clock and how many cars. Have you not seen their "differential rooms"? They'll have a room with shelves with nothing but different configured diffs for all tracks, tagged, bagged, ready to go....oh with bar codes.

    NASCAR has sucked up most all of the good mechanics and engineers as they pay better than ANYONE, including F1.

    I roomed with an Ex-McClaren F1 mechanic a few years ago at the 24 Hours of Daytona where I was crew chief for a German team. He was retired, from being a race mechanic and now was the cook on the FIA team. He worked for McClaren for 20+ years. He said it's 7 days a week, 364 days a year and equivalent to $40k salary per year......but as he put it "It was a privelidge to work in F1" I know guys fabricating in NASCAR making $120k easy.

    And if you think they are not Hi-Tech, think again. They might run carbs and stuff, but during testing they have full data aquisition with MOTEC, EFI, ZYTEC, you name it, they got it.

    Sponsors pay big bucks to be in NASCAR and those teams use every dime of it and suppliment it with Tshirts, Hats, model cars.......that's even more than the sponsor throw down.

    Road Racing in US......sponsorship......in the good ole days "mid 80's' during the height of IMSA GTP.......$20M was peanuts.....try double that for Jag, and Nissan. Now the only team that spends that kind of money in ALMS, well did, was Audi........The rest of the teams have had to work their guys to death on $5M budgets. Even little World Challenge that only does 10-12 events per year would cost over $1M a year with a 360 to do it right. $2M and you could run for the championship. With a Vette, you could do it for half that. Porsche the same as Ferrari.

    So $10M on a mid pack NASCAR team that runs something like 40 races per year is NOT at all out of the realm.

    Racing budgets..........Been there, done that, do it every day.
     
  23. Rexcoltrain

    Rexcoltrain Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    670
    Oahu, Hawaii
    Questions for Speedmoore...Of the budgets you mentioned for sportscar racing like ALMS, Speed Challenge or Grand Am, how much is recouped through sponsorships? Seems like with how weak interest is in the U.S., a $2mil budget would be hard to get back, especially if you run mid-pack. Also, I see seats available all the time for races, just curious what they go for as prices are rarely mentioned. If a seat is purchased for say $50k a race, where does that money come from? Thanks for any answers if you have time...I always wonder where all the money comes from when I watch sportscar racing.
     
  24. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician BANNED

    Apr 15, 2003
    1,541
    Austin, Texas
    Full Name:
    D Moore
    Two Words. "Gentleman Racer".

    There is no sponsorship for the most part in American "road" racing. Even when you see big corporate sponsor logo on a car, 99.9% of the time, somebodies Dad or Uncle is on the board and they may get $15k a race or something like that.....the rest is out of the pocket of the owner. The professional teams I've run or worked for: Carolina Turkey Riley Scott Ford WSC, Exxon Superflow GT3S Porsche, Duralast Batteries GTS2 Porsche, Toad Hall Keewaydin World Challenge GT, Racer's Group IMSA GTS3, Konrad GT2 Turbo.....were all backed by and owned by the CEO of the company.....and token sponsorship was awarded. Keewaydin Real Estate Group thorugh out big bucks, but the driver/owner is CEO of Keewaydin. They got their money out of the deal by bringing customers to the track and relationship building as well as team building for their employees. Racer's Group sold rides to pay for the majority of the bill. Carolina Turkey, the CEO/president was the owner/driver and we hired guys like Derek Bell, Hurley Haywood, Jim Pace, Stephan Johanson, Tommy Kendal, David Murry...etc. The Exxon deal, was a corporate favor to the CEO of Autozone, who happened to be the team owner/driver as well. We ended up having the Tiger Car on the label of their new synthetic after a year of running it and testing it in race conditions. Konrad, sold rides and would pickup small sponsors. Most logos on his car were from the driver's companies who bought the rides.

    As for me and my racing company, that's the ONLY reason we are not pro racing right now. No gentleman racer has asked us to take on their "Ferrari" or other team. Obtaining sponsorship is just flat out unobtainable unless you are an unbelievable salesman that can sell "sh......t to the Pope". I'm a good engineer and mechanic...oh race driver too ;-), not a salesman...so I've adapted to my customers needs and moved into supporting "Vintage" gentleman racers and sold the 2 car 18 wheeler pro support race transporter to get a 18 wheeler that would fit 6 sedan type race cars and their spares and the dog and pony show lounge etc. It's easier to make money if you spread it out to "base hits" instead of home runs. Split the costs over a number of customers and they all can go racing for much less and have all of the support they would get as a pro team. This week our 18 wheeler is headed to Elkhart Lake "Road America" where we will support only Porsches this weekend: 1984 962C water/water, a 911R, and a 73 RSR. Our Ferrari race customers are skipping this for doing smaller events and now Rob has started this NASA deal in TX with the Challenge cars or we might have him and a few other going with us as 1995 355 Challenge cars are now vintage race legal. Years ago, the fields were dominated by Ferrari. For the past 2 years, we have had the only Ferrari running in HSR. I wish we could get more Ferraris back out on the track.....it truly makes me sad.

    Sorry, you got me going there.

    d
     
  25. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

    Oct 17, 2004
    5,690
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Luis

    I think 10 about covers it. No one spends more than that, nascar rules are so strict you can't do much anyway
     
  26. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jul 11, 2004
    1,598
    England
    Full Name:
    Nathan Beehl
    Q - How do you make a small fortune out of motor racing?
    A - Start with a large one !!
    Nathan
     
  27. JoeBlo1

    JoeBlo1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2003
    11
    Although these numbers are huge, if you consider that there are 30 NBA teams and roughly 12 players on each time at any given time, the total salaries paid each year should easily surpass $1 billion. And that's just money paid to the players; nothing is invested in engineering, research, and development unlike in F1.
     
  28. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

    Oct 17, 2004
    5,690
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Luis

    While that is true, the teams see more money of that back and probably then some with many more games and spectators, concessions stand sales mechandising and the like. For as much as say, the New York Yankees spend they are always in the black. I'm not too sure how much money the F1 teams actually see back if anything.
     

Share This Page