Hi All, 2005 F430, 24k miles. I bought it ~7 months ago. The gearbox seems to get pretty hot with normal driving. The clutch seemed to start dragging after a spirited 50 min drive to the point that I had to pull over and let it cool for hours then I limped it home. I backed off the point of initial slip and haven’t seen that again, but haven’t driven it as hard again. However, it still seems to run hot. The accumulator was replaced 3 years ago. I was thinking maybe it isn’t holding pressure so the pump is running a lot. When the car is parked: I can open the door 5 times in a row and each time it primes every time. The pump sounds different each time and primes shorter the more times it happens. After doing that, the reservoir showed empty and I added 1/3 cup fluid, then I primed it ~5 times with opening the door and it had ~2mm of fluid above the base plate in the reservoir. I also noticed the fluid I removed was red/brown but the past owner is adamant they replaced it with green liquid moly at least 2 full flushes. So maybe it is getting burned? The car shifts just fine and instantly engages with a slight tap of the throttle. I took off the fill and dipstick plug and I could hear it hissing as I did that. I couldn’t tell which way pressure was releasing though. This was 24 hours later. Should there be a pressure differential at all? If so, for how long? I see no leaks by the half shaft flanges so I’m assuming it’s not over pressured. Could the pressure sensor be bad? Should I replace the accumulator? Is there a one way check valve for pressure? Is pressure differential ok? ill read its temperature with a IR scanner after driving and monitor the system with an SD3 while I drive for frequency of the pump running and clutch overheat - after I rebuild my axle CV joints Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I’m confused by your pictures. The color of the fluid in the red/white measuring cup looks green, which coincides with the green Liquid Moly. Is the last picture of the F1 fluid reservoir? The fluid inside is white and milky and not green. Where did you get the fluid in the red/white measuring cup from? Apparently not from inside the F1 reservoir. What is the clear plastic part with a little brown fluid at the bottom? Is that a funnel? Why are there three different color fluids in the different pictures? In your original post you state “ I took off the fill and dipstick plug and heard hissing.” Are you referring to the gearbox fill plug? I’m assuming you are, and yes there may be pressure inside the gearbox. Your post is confusing because you were talking about the F1 system, then, I’m assuming, you were talking about the gearbox. The F1 and the gearbox are two completely systems that use different oils. Flash, any ideas for the OP?
Ah, I should have clarified. What’s in the clear cup is what was taken out. What’s in the measuring cup was new fluid I added (1/3 of a cup). Yes, the hissing was from the gearbox fill plug in driver side. I know they’re two different systems but the gearbox could be overheating due to F1 system failures like a bad accumulator or actuator or pressure sensor - just Wilde guesses at this point. thank you; good to know some pressure remains in the gearbox even after 12-24 hours. what you perceive as milky fluid is the baseplate in the reservoir. The fluid in the f1 system was reddish brown but the previous owner said he did 2 full flushes with green fluid.
Ahh that helps, thanks for the updated info. Yes the gearbox will get very hot from normal driving. If you are concerned about it having been overheated, drain the gearbox fluid and look at it and smell it. I don’t think you will find that it overheated. Im thinking that the PIS was set too tight and that has nothing to do with the gearbox being hot. The PIS only affects the clutch. You can tell when the PIS is too tight because the car will creep forward when you are stopped and take your foot off the brake. The clutch is actually engaging the flywheel slightly and making the car move. Now you’ve backed off the PIS I think you’ll be good. The gearbox won’t overheat because of F1 issues. If your gearbox is going into gear quickly and finding the right gear, your F1 system is good. The PIS being too tight will build heat in the clutch when it’s not supposed to because it’s partially engaged when it shouldn’t be. As far as the F1 fluid and the accumulator, since you’ve got a new one and new fluid, go ahead and install the accumulator and do a F1 fluid flush with the new green fluid. The F1 pump shouldn’t cycle on/off as much as yours is when you open and close the door repeatedly. Flash, anything to add?
Pete, Mike Thank you for reaching out I sent OP a.note offering my and to call me with my number a few days ago There needs to be a interactive exchange to understand the concern and propose a fix of even needed He is welcome to call me.or text me with a time that works so we can review
Very nice write up, thanks. I’m rebuilding CV axles now. One started leaking. I’m wondering if from heat from gearbox or from test pipes (despite the heat shield). The grease seemed runny and the boot swelling so I’m figuring heat. A couple bolts were loose on it too, which of course heat could cause. I’ll bleed F1 and replace accumulator and use a good temp reader after a drive. I figure 200-220 F is max for a gearbox. That will tell me a lot. I figured the actuator or the accumulator could be malfunctioning or lines have clogs causing overheat. Or if the pump is priming too much that it could heat the gearbox too (maybe from bad accumulator). Maybe the pressure sensor is failing which over pressure could cause overheat (but no leaking axle flange seals so probably not that). Of course these are worst case scenario. I’ll bleed and new accumulator and see what it does. Air in lines could have been causing it to prime too much and overheat. As you said, clutch too close, rubs, causes heat, further causes clutch to expand and more rubbing.
Thanks, Flash. Received. - Im waiting to do some easy steps on my own, then get thermal readings, before I take your valuable time over the phone. Much appreciated, sincerely.
I can appreciate your stance on learning and doing on your own but I do think there are some misunderstanding of things within the F1 system and transmission that you alluded to above and I'm concerned that without the proper knowledge you will be spending money or worse breaking something
If doing a fluid flush and putting on a new accumulator can break something, I’m sure in over my head! Of course I’m joking; I’ve done that many times, and thank you for your concern. The fluid was low: reservoir bottom showed after a few primes. The pump actuated too frequently: air in lines or bad accumulator. -Correct me if I’m wrong, but these are most commonly/likely the culprits, and a fluid flush and new accumulator could be an easy cheap resolution. After which, driving the car to properly measure the gearbox temp is necessary to know if it’s actually overheating or not because as of now I’m just guessing. I already backed off PIS a couple months ago because it was dragging after a very spirited 2 hour drive - which is maybe when F1 fluid overheated. Gearbox fluid was within level and looked new. F1 fluid was reddish/brown despite past owner adamant he had done 2 thorough flushes with green fluid. I think I’m tracking right, but I’ll give you a call at your convenience and I greatly appreciate your time and care.
If you want to call me tonight after 8:30 pm EST or tomorrow at around 1130 that would work My biggest thing to understand is the "overheating" concept you have and who it relates.to a dragging clutch due to PIS ... We can discuss that and general test and procedures Hey maybe after our call I will say you are spot on and I was just concerned for nothing I truly (as many will attest to) that I have your best interests at heart ..no hidden agenda whatsoever
a very quick update ... Jake and I spoke today for a while - very nice conversation We went over and testing a few things on the F1 system but there are some more tests and "dialing in" to be done; he will do that over the next few days and report back Once all tests are done and any fine tuning, I will kindly ask Jake report back with finding ( if any) so to have a reference in the future He has a good plan of attack
