Hey guys So my F1 system has been s#!tting the bed lately. Going in to get it read by an SD2 but in the mean time thought I'd ask here if anyone has experienced the same problem. Few weeks back after pulling the car out of a fresh major service I took it for a spirited drive and it left me stuck at a gas station. Checked the F1 fuse, it was popped. Pump wasn't priming, transmission wasn't shifting, the usual symptoms. Replaced fuse after an hour or so of waiting for it to arrive and was on my way. 20 minutes later the fuse goes again. Okay, so I assume something is wrong with the pump and leave the car to get towed. Pulled my relay, opened it up...and sure enough it looks like there my have been some arcing going on in there causing the pump to potentially over run and overheat itself. The pump at this point was fried...wouldn't spin up at all and would just blow the fuse as soon as it tried. Bench tested the pump to confirm it was jammed. Installed new pump, new x266 relay, new 40amp fuse. Take it for a test drive...all is good...come home and park it and I hear an odd noise after the key is turned off. It's coming from the pump...almost as if it is still on and running at 10-20% power. Turned the car on again and noticed the pump relay was turning on and off quite frequently (sub-10 seconds). Deduced from there that the system was not holding pressure which is why the pump likely overran in the first place (or maybe the old relay damaged the system with the pump staying on?). Assumed it was a damaged accumulator, ordered one, replaced it, still doing the "pressure bleed down" noise after turning the car off. Same symptoms remain. Currently starting to think it's the pressure control switch on the power unit. Is this something that any of you have had problems with? I'm thinking it's not operating properly causing the pump to keep turning on because of the pressure bleeding back into the pump. Any ideas or discussion is appreciated...even just for the sake of future owners reading this thread. This forum has been a god send in 355 ownership. Cheers! Note: I should mention I'm running a 360 pump with HE adapter kit, and that besides this problem the car runs and drives fine. I just know the pump will melt if it's switching on this frequently so am not driving it in the mean time.
The only thing I can add is threads like this are the reason F1's get a bad wrap. It will be fine when properly diagnosed and fixed. I for one will never be doing the 360 conversion as other options exist. Best of luck getting this sorted.
Take it in because there are too many variables. If you new there was no air after replacing pumps or accumulators then i would suspect th pressure sensor. Not heard of others having this problem but it could eventually happen. Hiw many amps is the motor pulling when car is off but pump priming?? Did you test it by not starting car and checking for time to prime and reprime without shifting? Did you test it by shifting all gears while engine off and check the amps?? Did you test to see how many shifts before it kicks in to prime?? Answers 6 to 8 when not shifting 7 to 10 flashes or about 15 seconds from key first on(after sitting for 6 hrs) and 3 minutes without shifting. 8 to 14 amps N to first, first to s cond, seconf to third(pump kicks in)
What about the accumulator, has it been changed? Similar issue with my old F1 GTS. Had all the fixes as yours does but the accumulator was the culprit.
In hindsight I would've skipped the 360 pump upgrade as well and had my 355 pump rebuilt...but I didn't know that was an option at the time. I assumed the 360 upgrade would be a fix and move on with it. That said, the cost of a new 360 pump was $350 CAD shipped, accumulator came out to $150 CAD, and relay was $50 CAD from local BMW dealership. Fuses were a few dollars each. New pump, accumulator and relay for $550 CAD ($407 USD today) is cheap all things considered. Threads like this aren't meant to make the F1 system look bad...my intention is to document the fixes for the system so people aren't scared away from them.
It sounds like the gears on the pump head are spinning low speed in reverse (possibly). The noise withers down, I'm assuming, as pressure equalizes on either side of the leak.
I've never seen a 355 F1 pump let alone worked on one but base on your findings, repeated blown fuse in a short period of time indicates the device the fuse is supply electrical power to, in this case a motor is operating above the normal operating set point. Fuses are sized at least 125% of the motor running current thus will not blow under normal condition. However, some D.C. Motors rely on the load to maintain speed. Without a load, they will speed up faster and faster at the same time draw higher and higher current until the fuse blows. 1) A major fail accumulator acts as no load and can blow a fuse but the accumulator is not the problem since its been replaced. Verify this is true. 2) You indicated its a 360 motor and newly installed so motor internal failure unlikely for the purpose of this troubleshooting. From what I read on this forum, the 360 motor are stronger thus implies it requires a larger rating fuse. If this is true and the fuse you have is sized based on the weaker 355 motor, repeated fuse failure will occur. My opinion is based on the informations posted. Without testing it and verifying other elements of the system are working, above is only my opinion.
I read a few folks on here has a 360 motor on their 355 but not much informations on the critical detail. If the 360 motor is stronger, the fuse supplying the motor has to be also larger in size rating. It may not matter if it's only a small descriptency but let's cross all the T's and dot the I's. 360 owners please check your F1 pump fuse rating and let us know. Tazz, please give more verified infos. We can't just shoot from the hip. Give us a target to aim at
Everyone is skimming tonight. Read gentleman. He said he upsized the fuse to 40 amps. Which is larger than he needs in my opinion. 30 and 20 are standard.
Huh?? Not sure how you want me to be more specific. I have the 355 pump with the 355 motor and fuses. Thats the only info I can supply other than guessing? Now I know how Brian feels most times!
You indicated it's a 360 motor upgrade in there. If that's the case and "if" the 360 is stronger, and the fuse you now is original, it might be worth it to check if you need a bigger size fuse. Verify that your accumulator is not leaking. You indicated that it's been replaced.
The fuse is not blowing anymore guys. That was the first symptom. 1. Fuse blew. 2. Replaced fuse, it blew again after 20 minutes max of driving. 3. Put in another fuse, popped right away. Had car towed to my garage. 4. Bench tested 360 pump from original upgrade, wouldn't turn...seized... 5. Replaced 360 pump. Replaced relay in case it being stuck on was the cause of motor burnout. Replaced fuse (40A). 6. Pump was priming way too often (sub-10 seconds). Whirring / leak back noise coming from motor after car turned off. 7. Replaced accumulator assuming it was toast and not holding the pressure. Symptom persists. The car shifts through all gears...stationary or taking it for a spin around the block. The problem is the motor continues to prime every 10 seconds or less. This will burn the motor out if I keep driving like this, so I have not been. The reason I believe (am confident) there's a pressure leak in the system past the pump is because when the car is turned off, you can hear the pump gears "whirring" and the noise tapers off as the pressure (presumably) equalizes.
I understand. I really do. I guess I would just have preferred the post after solution. As an F1 owner, I know you understand.
In my experience...the most successful threads on this forum are the ones that have walked through the diagnosing and symptom process. The keywords come up in searches for future owners. If this problem was an open and shut case, I would be out driving my car and not posting about what I went through in order to resolve the issue...
When you say pump I assume you mean motor. If its pumping every 10 seconds with engine off and without shifting your system is not holding pressure. I think you said this. Pressure sensor is working likely causing pump to continue. Causes would be anything that needs to hold pressure. Hoses, bleed screws, actuator, to name a few. You should see oil if any of those are leaking. If pump takes about 9 flashes before stopping then moto and pump are ok. Air in system can likely cause this. Not likely that system failed at same time as motor so my guess is air when replacing accumulator which coincides with the accumulator problem before it was replaced. Take it to the shop and sd not much I can coach you through to fix from here. You could try bleeding from bleed screw but that is about it.
Thanks Grant. Ill have the dealer do the system bleed with the SD2 while its in there. No leaks otherwise besides residue from when the pump was overran causing the fluid to heat up and expand then spew out of the cap.
My guess is definately air in the system then. Dont worry they can at least bleed it and check the system also giving you piece of mind. Keep us posted
Looks like you were right, Grant. Had the system bled and seems fine for now. Not making the odd noise after shut down. Got bent over by the stealership though. What a rip off.
Ya that is like you said just the result of it operating too oftain. As i said and I think you confirmed that 10 seconds to pump rekick in is 2 min 50 sec fast so def a pressure holding problem. The thing,and you all ready know this, is it works till it does not. The right course as you said is take it in. Not to pick on you but I think you learned that after you fix something you need to ensure its working properly. The first motor failing was the first clue so its good you quit driving and diagnosed thus saving a second motor. It does make me think on my next major i could install a dim light with an aux switch to turn off, but if left on it would kick in each time the motor kicks in. This would be nice too know and would catch a problem like you had. Maybe overkill i dont know!! Let us know the solution though thanks.
At least thanks to fchat you dont need the 30 thousand complete replacement so lets all consider ourselves lucky. I think that would have really pissed me off.
Glad you at least got it sorted...although bending over for the dealer is never fun. I'm not picking, but seems like the reason for threads like this are because the dude needs help. You appear to be a little sensitive to the F1 topic. /hijack
