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F12 Advice Please!

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by cn.ldn, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris
    Hello fellow Ferrari lovers!

    I have come for your humble advice.

    I am located in London & a friend of mine (who is also a car dealer) has offered me my favourite Ferrari, the F12 at a price that I (think) is competitive, £150k.

    The Ferrari is a gulf import (Bahrain) thats now UK registered since 2017 and has had one previous owner in the UK. I can afford it, and as it's my dream Ferrari I really want it, however I am just worried about the value of the car.

    I am financing it on an interest only basis on a 12 month contract and am hopeful that it will retain its value for 12 months (next year i'd probably need as much of the money (deposit) back as possible).

    Do you guys expect it to depreciate further (bearing in mind its an Avorio Cream colour and LHD)? It's an extremely high spec vehicle other than that, or worst case, would it be attractive on the European market?

    I'm more or less swayed to get it, but peace of mind is what I am searching for right now!

    Any help would honestly be amazing..

    Thank you!
    Chris.
     
  2. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting
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    Aug 30, 2016
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    I’ve seen that one advertised for a long time, maybe 7-8 months. Avorio is a very rare colour for F12 and even more so with the full Rosso interior, at least in the UK. It stands out as a Gulf spec car a mile away. I think if you are happy taking £120k or less for a quick sale in a year, then maybe it’s ok. But otherwise that is going to be very, very hard to sell on in the UK market.
     
  3. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris
    Thanks for the response mate!

    Personally I really like the Avorio paint, not too keen on the cream parts of the interior! You are right that the spec just screams Gulf from a mile off

    I think its a risk for sure, but of course i'm trying to see how much of a risk.. It was on sale for a while but on a much higher price (I think 180k), which of course nobody would pay! It was recently dropped to 150, which is what grabbed my attention and my thinking behind it is that for that spec especially (carbon everywhere!), it MAY not drop much more? But it is a sort of marmite type colour combo!

    Does anyone know about the EU Market for these? I've had a look and the cheapest on AutoScout24 is 200k Euros with Much higher mileage and colours such as white..

    This is why I am still half tempted..

    Its such a tough choice!
     
  4. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    On Autoscout 24 there are now 131 F12 Berlinettas for sale in all continental Europe and the prices start at 180.000 Euros for the ones with less extras, more mileage etc. and go up reaching prices over 300.000 Euros. Sterling 150 K which is 171.000 Euros seems to be a bargain price for a F12 so if I was you I would be cautious. You don't mention what's the car year but that's important in order to know if the initial 3 year factory warranty is valid or not. If it isn't, then is also important to know if there is an extension warranty. The millage is also a factor that can devaluate considerably any Ferrari therefore you should take that into consideration. The level of extras the car is equipped with can make also a difference because on a new F12 one was able to order extras with a total value well over 100.000 Euros. Finally you should check if the car has already been involved in any kind of accident and any Ferrari official dealer has access to that information in the case the repair was done in a workshop of the Ferrari dealer's chain.
    The Avorio Cream is nice but I haven't seen on Autoscout 24 any F12 in this color which might suggest it won't sell as well as the more popular colors.
     
  5. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting
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    Aug 30, 2016
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    Warranty is another good point. U.K. supplied F12s come with 4 year Ferrari Warranty and 7 years free servicing. I’m not sure if a Gulf import will qualify for either. Best ask and contact your local Ferrari dealership to get some answers.
     
  6. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris

    Thank you for the kind response!

    The spec of the car is good, More or less full carbon interior and exterior amongst many other things.. much better than what i have seen on autoscout24...

    Year of registration is 2014. The mileage is 8500, so still very low and has a full service history no record of any accidents in the UK, I have contacted Bahrain Ferrari to check out the history there for me, which I will know about this weekend..

    The warranty has expired, however I can get the Ferrari 'New Power Warranty' - Some advice as to if this is actually any good would be great?

    What do you reckon based on this info?

    I honestly appreciate all the help! As you will understand considering the money to be spent, I need to know as much as possible.

    Chris.
     
  7. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris
    The warranty is out, but qualifies for the 'New Power Warranty', I have the service available which was confirmed by HR Owen - quite reassuring

    I am debating whether to self insure the warranty or go for a New Power warranty... I am not sure that its actually any good!
     
  8. ANOpax

    ANOpax Karting

    Jul 1, 2015
    124
    The Netherlands
    A gulf import will be treated as badly in Europe as US import - meaning that most people won't touch them.

    If your idea had been to buy and hold then the colour and gulf import status would be less of an issue. Given that you wish to trade out in a year (losing minimal capital) both of those factors will count heavily against you getting your money back.

    Everything has a clearing price but I would suggest that in your case and for your needs, £150k is not it.

    Spend more on a more resellable car and paradoxically, you will likely lose less...
     
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  9. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    Chris IMO the extension power warranty is absolutely essential and I have one valid on my F12 until March 2019 and will renew it before it ends. The F12 is a reliable car but sometimes things happen and I've experienced that before so I tell you a story. With a 2009 California I had one day the gear-box sign showed and everything seemed normal while driving. A week later happened again and the transition from 2nd to 3rd gear in automatic started not being smooth so I took the car to the dealer. Because I had the extension power warranty Ferrari instructed the dealer to carry a set of diagnosing tests and two weeks later they issued the verdict "A faulty sensor on the DCT". They had to remove all the transmission which is a complex operation because the rear axle has to come out as well as the hydraulic rear brakes circuit, exhaust and all the bottom panels of the car. After the DCT was opened and the faulty sensor substituted everything had to be put back. After they tested the car everything seemed ok but the electric parking brake wasn't acting so Ferrari diagnosed a second faulty sensor and ordered the DCT to be removed a second time. All that happened during a period of at least three months and I couldn't use the car and in the end I was told by the dealer that in the eventuality I didn't have the extension power warranty that bill would have been well over 10.000 Euros.

    The F12 you are looking at in terms of millage is ok and you've already done something very important by checking with Bahrain Ferrari all the history of the car. If you buy the car and in future you want to trade it in Europe the fact that it came from Bahrain won't be a plus because there is this established idea that Ferrari owners from the UAE race their cars and don't treat them very well, so you should expect a price drop because of that

    Good luck and if you need further information I'm certain you'll get it here.
     
  10. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    The point made above about the car already being for sale for a while must also carry the implication that it will either be a slow sell in a year's time or the dealers will kick you in the nuts even beyond their usual spread which on a slow moving car can be huge - if you pay 150 look at getting 100 out and anything else is a bonus

    A more expensive UK RHD or Euro LHD car may give less of a loss over a year
     
  11. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris

    Thank you for this info, I think i'd be crazy not to go for a new power warranty after hearing that!
     
  12. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris

    Yeah that's more or less what I am trying to weigh up, the story of the car is someone in the UK purchased it from a Mayfair dealer in August 2017 thinking he was moving to Monaco, which in the end fell through. At the time he paid 180k... Now it is just sitting in his garage and he wants to get rid of it quickly. It was up for sale for 180k but wasn't getting the interest so now its 150 and generating interest (from myself and apparently a couple of others between the UK and France).

    What I can't figure out is if the 'loss' has already occurred (from 180k to 150k) or if there will be more - It's driving me mad, especially when I personally love the car, the colour and spec!

    And of course as the finance deal is interest only.. it would be great value IF not sold for a loss or for a minimal loss.

    ITS DRIVING ME MAD :'(
     
  13. ANOpax

    ANOpax Karting

    Jul 1, 2015
    124
    The Netherlands
    I'm sorry to hear that it's driving you mad. This should be a fun process, not a maddening one! I get the impression that you really want it but are worried about the financial consequences.

    Let me lay it on the line for you as I see it...

    First up, ignore the the 'interest from other parties'. That's just a ruse.
    Secondly, no matter whether you buy a RHD UK car, a LHD Euro car or the Gulf car, you will lose money on all of them if your aim is to buy and sell within 12 months. The question is how much. So please be under no illusion that the only cost to this deal is the finance. You will have to pay the bid-offer spread which is typically around 20k but you may be able to get this down to 10k.

    Given that you are financing this on interest only, the cost of stepping up to a €200k car is only going to be an extra 150 quid per month. That €200k will buy you a Euro car with similar spec and km to the one you're looking at. But it will be much more resellable in the UK or back to the continent when you're done with it. If minimising financial loss is your objective then a UK RHD or Euro LHD will stand you in better stead than the Gulf car. If getting the car of your dreams in the spec you want is your objective, then buy the Gulf car but realise that most people won't share your love of the spec come resale time. I have had to make the same decision as you and chose the latter course of action - but I intend to keep it, not resell in 12 months time...
     
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  14. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    If you want to read the posts left by people who have experience with F cars imported from the UAE go to the search window above and introduce this thread name "Is it worth exporting from UAE ?"
     
  15. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris

    Thank you for this response, very insightful!

    Maybe I should get some quotes based on a 200k car just to calculate the difference.

    For me spec is always as important as anything else as other than the performance of the vehicle, it's what the driver will enjoy the most... When you park up and walk away from your vehicle and can't resist to look back at it!

    I think maybe I should do some more research, check what dealers would offer me here and abroad and maybe make a decision based on this...
     
  16. ANOpax

    ANOpax Karting

    Jul 1, 2015
    124
    The Netherlands
    Very wise. Pretend you're selling a car of identical spec and provenance to the Gulf car you're interested in and see how far the trade will take your pants down. Then do the same with a 200k UK RHD car and see what the difference is. At least you'll go into the decision armed with some numbers because all we are doing on here is speculating...
     
  17. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    The purchase of a second hand F12 isn't a straight forward task and in my case the search went on and on for around 8 months. I studied many cars that were announced on Autoscout 24 and then started making a comparison short list with the 10 cars which interested me the most. However none of the cars in that list fulfilled the image of the F12 of my dreams because either they had a color I liked but lacked in extras, others had many extras and a color I liked but an interior I disliked, and it went like this for more than 6 months. One day, however, I discovered the F12 of my dreams a couple of hours after it was put for sale on line by a big German Ferrari dealer I know. Went to see the car and it was love at first sight so I bought it. I think it wasn't a bad thing having taken so long to find my F12 because if I would have hurried the selection due to impatience and bought a car which didn't fulfill what I wanted then for sure I would have regretted it forever.
     
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  18. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting
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    Aug 30, 2016
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    Likewise, I spent almost a year searching for my F12. It takes a while to get things right and when you are buying a super car like this you want it to be right.
     
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  19. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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  20. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    This Nero Stellate Opaco is a magnificent exotic beauty with a discrete but very nice tailored interior with lots of carbon fiber and a top spec.
    The car has relatively low millage, warranty a unique color, nice interior and many extras so seems to have everything one could wish on a F12 . I would say that unless you find something very negative in the history of the car, probably is a rare opportunity to own a beautiful F12 different from everyone's. I love Neros and I had a Nero Ferrari which always looked absolutely stunning after had been washed. For me the only draw back with Neros is that they show a lot more than other colors dust and dirt and you have to clean the exterior very regularly. However looking at them when they are cleaned completely compensates the harder work
     
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  21. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

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    I can't say I know anything about the European market but buying a used modern day Ferrari (with some exceptions) in hopes it loses minimal to no value in one year is not a good idea.....
     
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  22. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

    Jun 21, 2018
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    Chris
    I agree, I have never seen a spec like this and it looks like it's been taken care of very well..

    It's quite a tasteful design too.

    Would you say it would hold more value than others due to it being a rareish spec?

    I'm in the same predicament as before! :eek:
     
  23. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    No offence but some people should avoid buying Ferraris just because they are their dream cars but value money more than the car. Suggest switching to a cheaper car where you will not agonize over loss.
     
  24. cn.ldn

    cn.ldn Rookie

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    It's not that i'm necessarily 'agonizing over a loss', but like many others who have said even in this thread, the search for the right car can be a long one. It's about a having a balance between value for money and your dream car.. what's wrong with trying to achieve that? When you do it will feel even sweeter..
     
  25. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    Ferraris are about passion IMO and not about depreciation calculus and getting all or as much of your money back in a year. We are from different planets but share dreams of Ferraris so best of luck.
     
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