F12 Drivability | FerrariChat

F12 Drivability

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by sk67, Nov 24, 2017.

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  1. sk67

    sk67 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2014
    12
    Hi, I am considering purchasing an F12. I have read a number of concerns about how hard it is to drive and control.....I test drove it and it seemed more tame than expected or feared. I didnt get to push the car as much as I would like to see how far into its range it became more difficult to drive. I plan on doing GT style drives in the car that are spirited but not radical. For the F12 owners our there, how has your experience been. Is it just too powerful or is the concern overblown?

    Thanks!!
     
  2. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,238
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    The car is super civilized. You can drive it to the corner store to get milk, or let it all hang out at a track day. There are multiple driver's aid systems that will save your bacon unless you do something that is really stupid. That said, the limits of the car are so high that if you are near the edge, then you are going really fast, way too fast for public roads. The only place to explore the limits of an F12 is on the track. If you are just driving the car in a spirited fashion you should be just fine, just don't turn the Manettino past "Race" mode and use the accelerator pedal prudently.
     
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  3. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2011
    9,166
    virginia usa
    I agree with Motobs post . I can drive mine just like any other car with absolutely no problem. But if you put it in race mode and put the hammer down best get off the phone and grabb hold of the wheel and paddles for the ride of your life..
    Very easy to drive considering its purpose which is a high performance street GT..
    Good luck you will love it
     
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  4. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,641
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    The steering is super fast. Drive with your wrists only type setup. Massive power and high revving monster. Brakes are superb. It can get out of control with poor decision of right foot. Tires are the limit in this car. Just got back from a spirited drive. Air temp at 51F and the tires never reached temp. Like butter on a hot grill when beyond baffles open. I drive mostly above ESC to save on brakes and avoid nannies but at cooler temps it RACE with bumpy road mode. Do not recommend when below 50F. Motob is right. You cannot experience anything near limits on public roads. A good push in third is over 100mph instantly. Couldn't imagine a better problem to have. Today's ride has left the leather scent soaked in my sinuses and the V12 scream is still echoing in my head. Heaven.
     
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  5. BoochZilla

    BoochZilla Rookie

    Jul 10, 2016
    27
    F12 is a piece of cake to drive.

    You could daily drive it without a worry. My DD is an M4 and honestly the only “concern” I have switching back and forth to my F12 on a whim, is remembering how long/low the front end is and making a mental note that the horn is not in the middle!

    Unless I was personally driving in idiot mode on public roads, I would have little concern for the extra power catching me off guard.

    Bought the car for the everyday / long distance drivability factor wrapped around the full stallion whenever you want to let it out. It has been exactly that and not disappointed one bit - especially in the sound department. I hear the exhaust when I sleep.

    I originally was in for a 488, which is arguably easier to drive but has far less character IMO.





    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 19, 2006
    16,121
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    Tires matter IMO. Michelin >>Pirelli.
     
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  7. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting

    Aug 30, 2016
    245
    #7 Gullwing, Nov 24, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
    Very easy to drive as long as you respect the accelerator pedal. I drive mine around quite often but only use the first third to half of the pedal, it still sounds immense when wound up. Steering is light but not an issue.

    It’s fun for every day driving. Best car I’ve ever owned and I’m planning on keeping mine for years.
     
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  8. BoochZilla

    BoochZilla Rookie

    Jul 10, 2016
    27
    This.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  9. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
    1,386
    UK
    Full Name:
    Justin
    I had the same fears as you going from FF to F12. I needn’t have worried but as italiafan says Michelins suit the car muchbetter than Pirelli’s.

    I have used my F12 down close to zero C lately and no problems so far. Obviously it has 730 HP between two rear tyres so unwise to use it all at low temperatures but be sensible and you can use the car in most conditions.
     
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  10. f12tm

    f12tm Karting

    Nov 26, 2014
    94
    North Carolina
    I have owned my F12 close to two years and have jokingly referred to it as Jekyll & Hyde...It really is a surprisingly calm car to drive around in wet mode in city traffic... you will be in 4th or 5th gear at less than 40mph with very little gear change perception...BUT, when you want to get on it, I certainly concur with not going beyond race mode on the street... I went one click up and somewhere around 4-5,000 rpm in third, she just walked... not that it's not controllable, it's just that your skill level needs to be on point... In race mode the F12 will mostly catch it's self and I have gone full throttle up thru 4th with confidence... it's a blast ! Thought my C/GT at 600hp was all I would ever need, but NO, more really is better... maybe 850-900 hp is next...
    Enjoy your F12 ......
     
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  11. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,238
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    As Solid State has mentioned the F12 steering is super fast and responsive. The earlier V12's (550 &575) had heavier more stable steering at freeway speeds, as do all of the mid engined cars (360,430, 458, 488). For some reason when Ferrari made the 599 and then the F12, they made the steering super responsive, to the point where you have to be careful with your steering inputs. The car does not feel as planted or stable as the mid-engined cars or my favorite front engined cars, the FF and GTC4 Lusso. The 599GTO and TDF also are more stable at speed.
    It is not a bad thing, just something to be aware of and adjust for, especially if you are switching from driving one car to another. If you are not paying attention, you can find yourself in the other lane very quickly.
     
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  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,896
    The only time I was ever less than thrilled with the F12's behavior is when the speed exceeds about 130 MPH. The front end became less connected than I would have preferred and you might call the car's behavior "darty". This was a rare occasion for me to drive at these speeds. Its not how I normally drive! If you are going to drive at these and faster speeds then I think I would be concerned about this behavior- perhaps correctable to some degree with tire pressure and alignment. However, if you are going to keep it to what I would call typical speeds then the car is rock solid stable on the highway and on back roads the throttle and steering conspire to deliver a truly wonderful experience. The sense of confidence the car inspires reminds me a lot of when I got an M5 back in 2000. I knew it wasn't the fastest nor most nimble car out there, but driving it one felt nearly invincible- yet in a relatively comfortable and useable car. That's now how I feel about the F12- though the dynamics are far beyond that M5 from 17 years ago!

    Its entirely useable. What's more for GT style drives you have picked the perfect accomplice. You will be able to keep up with anything, all the while in perfect comfort- and you'll be doing it in style!
     
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  13. sk67

    sk67 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2014
    12
    Thank you all for such detailed and helpful responses. My impression of the car from just a few drives and my research is consistent with your experience and that makes me very comfortable to get the car. Ill attach a pic of it once I finalize a purchase. :)
     
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  14. sk67

    sk67 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2014
    12
    THank you - very helpful and consistent with what I have felt myself when driving it just a few times. I know some owners have been disappointed but my sense is that maybe they were just driving it too hard into and out of turns. its very easy to keep pushing that car........
     
  15. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,896
    You're welcome. Its very possible to generate far too much entry speed with a car that possesses this kind of power, and thus, you will hear complaints of "gee too much understeer". It turns out nothing can repeal the laws of physics and if you are taking turns with too much speed then that is on the pilot. Thankfully they haven't dialed out all driver involvement and judgement.... yet! I can tell you I have driven my car in all kinds of circumstances and I am really impressed with the F12. The only real complaint I have with the car is at lower RPMs the downshift from 3-2 is a little clunky.
     
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  16. sk67

    sk67 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2014
    12
    I agree....the overall f12 design and experience is just too awesome to take the chance and work on disciplining myself :)
     
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  17. JMJ

    JMJ Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    181
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey J
     
  18. JMJ

    JMJ Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    181
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey J
    Ive got the Michelins on my 2016, 8k miles on them, do you think that 35 degrees would pose a hazard at normal speeds and driving conditions? would wet mode assist as well?
     
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  19. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
    1,386
    UK
    Full Name:
    Justin
    At just above freezing in dry conditions it wouldn’t do any harm to stay in WET. More importantly I look at the temperatures of my tyres and am just a little more careful until my tyre temperatures get up to about 20C or 68F which doesn’t take long at all.
     
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  20. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,591
    Southern Europe
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Like others have already mentioned the F12 in fact is a car that has a dual personality because it can be very civilized going around town or on a road journey but, if one wishes so, can make the eyes really pop out of the orbits. It's a car we can trust but has to be always treated with great respect and specially in wet or cold conditions the single advice is to be hiper respectful. The F12 is a joy to drive and personally one of the things I really enjoy is the very direct steering which enables to place the car with total precision where we want. The power is huge and available instantaneously and if we press the accelerator down to the bottom on a very long straight, it will accelerate and accelerate without the slightest hesitation, like a jet plane when is taking off, and before we realize it we are doing more than 200 MPH. Apart from the fact that is a very elegant GT and the last Pininfarina designed Ferrari, the F12 V12 sound while revving or at high revs with the exhaust valves open is a kind of free of charge journey that let's us listen to a close approximation of a formula 1 Ferrari of the eighties.
     
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  21. seawise

    seawise Karting

    Feb 29, 2016
    96
    Sussex, UK
    Because it has a relatively long travel throttle, a normally aspirated engine and a benign chassis with a full compliment of idiot electronic aids I would say that the F12 is a very friendly car to drive on a dry warm road. Of course if you turn everything off in the wet and start using all of the throttle then you need to be a proper 'hand' to keep it out of the barriers, but only a fool would drive like that. It's not a spikey car to drive at all in my opinion.
     
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  22. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,591
    Southern Europe
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    Mario
    In the wet I believe you don't have to turn everything off to watch the rear really go sideways. In race mode I've already experienced in the track, after a light rainfall, how a less delicate use of the throttle can make the rear really go out of control. I've experienced that with the Pirelli's PZero when they were almost brand new but I'm aware that tire brand and type could eventually alter that behavior on wet conditions.
     
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  23. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,664
    Bournemouth, UK
    Oh, I don't think that the F12 sounds turbocharged at all... :D

    PS: Try the new Pirelli P Zero 4. Amazing tyre!
     
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  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,896
    The systems help you maximize the available grip. When temps go below around 45F you will see an exponential run off in the grip of summer tires like MPSS or the new Pirelli P Zero 4. My **guess** is at 35F the grip available on those tires is probably something around 40-50% of what it would be if the temp was 75F. That's a lot of grip to be giving up. If you are driving down the street and not pushing it, then you should be fine- but its something to consider for your braking distances. A panic stop will still be done with the detriment of greatly reduced grip- even with the benefit of all the helpers. If you are going to drive your car frequently at these cold temps, a set of winter tires, like the Pirelli SottoZero or Michelin Pilot Alpin would be your best bet. Then you could continue to enjoy your car year round.

    This next part is old info but I'll share anyway: I was surprised to discover at the skid pad back in 2008 when I did the Corsa Pilota at Mt. Tremblant the F430 even in wet mode would allow quite a bit of slip under the right conditions- if it thinks you are trying to be playful it gave me a bit of play before the systems come on. I would imagine they have made further refinements in the years between then and now- but I think Ferrari's philosophy is different from everyone else. They are looking to provide you the maximum fun experience vs the others which just cut power and remove the fun. Thus, I would be careful about over relying on any traction mode.

    The key thing to remember is it all comes down to your tires.
     
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  25. f12tm

    f12tm Karting

    Nov 26, 2014
    94
    North Carolina
    Thanks Caeruleus11 for your comments on outside temps and tire grip... Interestedly it was on the chilly side the other evening here in NC and while in 3rd at around 4k rpm, the F12 just tried to walk out from under me... I was going to sign up for the Rolex24 Ferrari Monday drive event...it's possible that it could be a cool day and I sure don't want to test the grip at over 140 in turns 3&4... I have driven the track before when it was very warm in a 993GT2 with slicks and would be pushing the F12 to match that experience... you may have just saved my car....
     
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