F12 or 458 long term hold

458, it is the end of the line for unassisted Ferrari V8s (other than the Speciale), the 812SF replaced the F12B and made significant improvements and there are about half as many 812SF produced for USA as F12B

But, a long term hold? Maybe shares in S&P500 or real estate would be better...

 

Agree, these are high production exotics....a wise Italian mentor of mine told me to buy the rarest, most special cars I loved that I could afford. So I think the track special cars will do well, cars badged GTO, Aperta models...those kinds of things.

 

I cannot speak to price 10 years forward...don't think anyone here can with any certainty.

I opted for the F12 over the 812. I fully realize on paper the 812 is more "advanced" technically & mechanically. However...and I know this is subjective...the F12 has an appearance that aligns with a more traditional Ferrari look, IMO.

There will always be something better/faster coming along...a Ferrari V12 is supposed to create an emotional response...the F12 does that for me both aesthetically & performance wise.

Time will tell if others are like me and desire the F12.

BTW...you can deduct 1 2017 F12 from the potential future supply...I aint selling mine.
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Beautiful. What color? I moved to the 812 then GTS. Still miss the looks and raw feel of the f12 even though I love my GTS. They are all great machines!

 

Rosso Fiorano. It presents as a very rich red...I enjoy the look for the shape of the F12.

The GTS is the car that I would consider trading the F12 for. Definitely not going to make anything like that again. Enjoy!

 

F12 is the last Pininfarina car and many see it as better looking than the 812 which could swing buyers the other way. From my understanding there are a lot less 812SF than F12 (but not if you add in the GTS). So (relative) rarity is in the 812SF favour. Open top in GTS favour

458 is 'just' the last N/A V8

Neither the 458 nor the F12 are limited but nothing sets either apart as a long term prospect I would suggest as they appeal to different types of buyer.

The simple rule for a long term hold for any standard run car if you objective is for it to appreciate, is to buy the latest and lowest mile car you can find (certainly less than 1,500 miles) and then never drive it.

At best over 10 years, if you drive it, your aim should be to break even on a 458 or F12. Predicting where we will be in terms of the economy, fuel, tax rates, taste, trends all of which (and more) will have an effect on price, is a fools game IMHO.

 

More 812 than F12 produced. F12 last PF Ferrari. Last when under Lucca who was last direct under Enzo. Last under Sergio as well. Lots of lasts besides last great looking Ferrari to date. That last statement is matter of popular opinion but the prior are all facts. The 812 is still the same car as F12 as in just refinements which mean really nothing over time. The 458 shares some of the lasts as the F12. A whole lot more 458 produced than F12. F12 was the Ferrari flagship and the 458 was the high volume production car. Future values unknown.

 

Gorgeous car!
F12 is a classic for sure. Dynamically I think the 812 is certainly a step ahead, but the F12 has that “X Factor” that will always appeal.

 

Respectfully, having left an F12 for an 812, both great cars, but the 812 is just perfect.

And having driven all the ones that came later, including the 296, the 458 is just smiles all day.
I don’t see prices of either going down, and they are still going up now. Stocks or no stocks.

 

Go to an S&P500 returns calculator website for a sobering realization of how hard it is for even the cars we look back on as good investments to actually beat the stock market, let alone when you factor in maintenance and insurance. Better to buy the car you actually enjoy.

 

Cars by and large awful "investments." If you don't derive non-monetary return, best not to buy.

 

Cant really go wrong with either, buy the one you enjoy driving the most and the enjoyment you derive will be worth more than any monetary gain you may make.

 

I have an F12 and love it. The 458 will likely be more likely to appreciate because they’re in higher demand than F12’s and they’re the last NA V8. Like others have said, don’t buy either if investment is your purpose. I think you can can own either, drive them moderately and enjoy them and then not take a bath if you decide to sell them.

Not sure where people are getting their information that the 812 was produced in fewer units but that’s not true. Ferrari made about 8,000 SF’s, not counting the GTS, globally and about 2,400 of them came to North America. F12 is about 5,000 globally with 1,500 in North America.

The 812 is a better car just like most new Ferrari’s are in many ways better than their predecessors in terms of performance, refinement etc. the F12 looks better to me


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I got both. Hit me up in ten years and I'll let you know.

 

spot on man. buy what you love and drive it!

 

im in complete agreement, I went with the f12 because I feel the lines are more beautiful and I still feel that way when I look at them side by side. I’m not as concerned with future value since I don’t plan on selling mine either. I’ve bought and sold plenty of other cars, but I have an attachment to the f12

 

F12 was flagship NA V12 model, low production amount.
458 mid-level NA V8 high production amount.

keep them both, but over time i believe the F12 will be more sought after.

 

If you are considering either as a true investment it is a mistake - Neither had low enough production numbers to make them truly collectible. The 458 is the last NA mid-engine Ferrari designed by Pininfarina so I believe it will hold its value well and any NA front-engine V12 will to some extent. The fact that the 812 was arguably better and better looking (matter of opinion/taste obviously) hurts it a bit.

Fact is that while I believe 458s will hold value well, they are not going to skyrocket and the current bubble will deflate a bit - not "pop" but deflate. IMHO normal 458 Italia's and Spiders will always be a $200K car - either side depending on spec. If you buy one now at sane money and enjoy it the relatively flat depreciation and any appreciation will be offset by maintenance/run costs so if you are lucky enough to drive and own a 458 and come out relatively flat that is an amazing use of money IMHO. If you are looking for something to park and look at and plan to retire on it you are barking up the wrong tree and if you think you will drive it and use it and somehow make a bunch of money on it in the long run you will be disappointed.

If you want an "investment" car you will need to pony up to a Speciale or TdF (given the 458/F12 scope of your thread).

I am by no means an expert so take my thoughts as just that - thoughts - Cheers

 

Speciale is the real investment grade.

That said, I'm trying to figure out how to keep the F12 indefinitely... garage space limited here.

 

8000 SFs made!?
I find that very hard to believe.

 

John where did these numbers come from?

 

The numbers are a combination of looking at European registrations (car sales base.com), 10-K’s from their public filings looking back at V12 production, shipments by geography some extrapolation. It might be 8,000, it might be 7,500 but more 812 SF were made than F12 by a significant margin.

I also have my own database of F12 and 812 vin’s, US and Canadian cars only, that I’ve been keeping up with for almost 3 years so putting all this data together that’s how I come up with those numbers.

At any particular time there’s always about double the 812 SF’s for sale over the F12 in the US. That doesn’t prove the production numbers I’ve come up with but anecdotally you see that there’s consistently more 812 supply.


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I’m not in a spot where I can look right now but going off memory, about 3,400 812’s have been registered in Europe alone through the end of 2022 compared to 2,100 F12’s during their production run.


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Thanks for the link and certainly corrected my understanding. Looks like 3,176 812 SF sold in the EU alone. That's nearly 75% of F12 sold globally (which I think is around 4,600). I believe a lot more 812SF were shipped to the US than F12 so numbers of 812SF should way outstrip F12 never mind GTS..
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