F12 Paint Bubbling

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by acadmd, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Solid State

    Solid State Formula 3
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    Feb 4, 2014
    2,153
    Or they just get addicted to the doubling of profits throughout the lineup. But I like your wish much better. I think most likely any concentration will go strictly to the hyper car and all the production cars - even the LEs which are identical to the production cars - will suffer from quick profits. This is the fate of all publically traded manufacturing companies.
     
  2. TM328

    TM328 Karting

    Jul 26, 2004
    128
    New England
    Disappointing because it’s basic metallurgy. It’s amazing how ferrari can hold ultra tight tolerances on critical engine components and then followed that up with a lack of basic competence in regards to galvanic corrosion, sticky buttons or easily worn leather bolsters that all have essentially not been improved in 15-20 years.
     
  3. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2007
    2,237
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    Grant
  4. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Would you happen to know which model year this particular car is from? I wonder whether this issue had cured in the later year cars.
     
  5. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting

    Aug 30, 2016
    88
    Mine is a December 2015 Nero daytona if that helps.
     
  6. Wheels1

    Wheels1 Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2007
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    Sorry no, he has a private reg. I think it might be a 14/15 but it is Black again.
    On the first page of this thread the first pic is from a 2016 car, it seems to be luck of the draw, my 2014 car is fine.
     
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  8. Solid State

    Solid State Formula 3
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    #82 Solid State, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    No owner should have to deal with this issue IMHO. This is the flagship car and carries with it Ferrari's reputation. It is possible that production changed something and its more likely in the latter years. We just don't know and that's part of the problem. Ferrari should do a recall on this instead of how its being handled. The dealers are not car builders so I don't expect miracles from them. I don't have the problem but with the triple layer its not a pleasant thought.
     
  9. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    GALVANIC CORROSION from steel mesh

    I wonder how many modern cars still feature fine steel mesh instead of larger mesh patterns made of plastic or resin.

    Fine steel mesh set against aluminium will always be problematic but is unfortunately also part of history. An aluminium mesh would be best but they are (as yet) not durable enough. Stainless steel will cause galvanic corrosion on aluminium unless the area involved is "super" well insulated.

    Galvanic corrosion will occur on the less noble of different metals in physical contact when:
    - the metals are of sufficiently different anodic potential (e.g. aluminium when in contact with stainless steel)
    - a film of electrolyte is connecting both metals (e.g. water)

    The conditions below illustrate how galvanic corrosion can be prevented.

    "...Galvanic Compatibility
    Often when design requires that dissimilar metals come in contact, the galvanic compatibility is managed by finishes and plating. The finishing and plating selected facilitate the dissimilar materials being in contact and protect the base materials from corrosion.

    • For harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; silver - nickel would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable..."


    "Anodic Index...
    ...
    0.75 Aluminum, wrought alloys of the 2000 Series
    0.85 Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels
    0.90 Aluminum (e.g. 6061), wrought alloys other than 2000 Series, cast alloys of the silicon type
    0.95 Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate
    1.20 Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel
    ..."​

    PAINT JOBS

    I watched several YouTube videos comparing Ferrari factory paint shop(s) to those at Porsche, Audi, BMW. The German factory videos did not show any humans in the paint shop at all and used different spray guns for exterior vs. interior painting. The only human intervention at Porsche was the painting of a CF paneled front bonnet, done in isolation, which required hand-application of masking as well as custom CF paneling and inspections.

    The exterior paint guns for the car bodies seem to be of different technology, possibly electrostatic because the paint was not sprayed onto the external body panels, rather, the paint appears to be atomised and drawn (fall) to the panels. The paint guns for interior painting looked traditional, used air pressure to spray paint onto the surfaces. In the Ferrari factory footage, probably 2013-2014 vintage, only 2 spray guns were used for exterior painting vs 4 guns in the German factories and the guns were the traditional pressure spray type, not the possibly electrostatic ones used in the German factories.

    In the Ferrari factory, interior painting was done by 2 human workers rather than robots, as in the German factories. I suspect, Ferrari may not be able to use electrostatic spray guns if human workers are exposed to possible electrocution as the entire car body needs to be electrically-charged to electrostatically attract the positively-charged spray particles.

    So perhaps at the end of the day, we might simply just appreciate the human aspect of Ferrari car assembly and accept that some forms of advanced technology(ies) may be incompatible with the human "touch" which is a desirable feature of our hand-built Ferraris.
     
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  10. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting

    Aug 30, 2016
    88
    Exactly. I’ve had friends comment on the paint bubbling and we’re surprised to see it on a Ferrari. It’s disappointing for a flagship car.
     
  11. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Thank you all for the replies. So, it is not yet clear whether the issue has been fixed in the later cars. I have one of the last batch of F12 in August last year, but with a TM triple layer paint scheme. I am thinking of pre-emptively having the mesh edges properly coated and ensure that the clearances are sufficient to avoid rubbing against the body. I had a look the mesh edges, and they are sharp, and can imagine the they will touch the body panel with if there's any flex. Seems an easier job than a repaint.
     
  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    I can tell you my car is a 2017 and is going in for repair in a few weeks. I agree it would be best to address this before it happens- especially with special paint.
     
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  13. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Are they working with a solid or metallic color for you?
     
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  15. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    After some discussion about whether the (cheaper) pre-emptive work would be covered by the warranty or, more importantly invalidate it if carried out outside of it, I am told I should wait until the next set of service bulletins are uploaded by the factory for the year. I am reading this as a sign that the factory is aware of an issue. Will post when I get an update.
     
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  16. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Please do. Thank you!

    @of2worlds, my car is Blu Pozzi :)
     
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  17. Solid State

    Solid State Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 4, 2014
    2,153
    IMO there is now publically documented proof of a factory pre-existing condition. Cars are being re-painted in part and in whole and multiple times in some cases. It is well documented in pictures and in writing. This is recall justification for sure. The cost to strip and re-do a 3-layer car and any resulting loss of value is on the manufacturer here. The best way to go from here is for the factory to release a pre-failure remediation procedure for all cars to prevent the corrosion and also to be performed on cars needing the re-paint so it does not re-occur. This should be done at the next service. The paint warrantee for this condition would also need to be extended especially considering its the flagship and a documented factory failure.
     
  18. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    351
    Southern California
    Lol and you think Ferrari is gonna do any of this? F12 is old news to them. What they should do is make the mesh grills out of aluminum. I think I may just remove mine. Not sure what else to do aside from risking half my car being repainted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Solid State

    Solid State Formula 3
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    They may not have much of a choice. Seems if you can remove them as you suggest then they can be isolated for prevention and re-installed. Let's see what they come up with. Should not be so hard and now that its occurring a lot - with many cars even under warrantee still - could be worked into the annual. I have no idea what is involved with removal. If its just an inside panel removal and a couple screws then a whole lot easier than endless repaints. Again, let's see what their analysis says and go from there.
     
  20. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    I have been advised that a DIY removal of the mesh will invalidate the warranty. Looks like due process needs to be followed.
     
  21. donutcritic

    donutcritic Rookie

    Feb 4, 2018
    5
    Palo Alto
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    I am shopping for a F12 and saw the paint bubbling issue for the first time on a MY16 Silverstone car yesterday. The dealer mentioned Ferrari is contemplating a recall action, but haven't issued anything formal at this time.

    For those who have repairs in this thread, the majority are fine repainting that area. Has the corrosion returned?
     
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  22. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Just following on, it appears that we are still some time away from a formal solution. I think an issue is whether repainting alone solves it if the underlying cause is dissimilar metal-to-metal contact which could again happen after some flexing while driving. I am not an expert, however.
     
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  23. DRYHOLE

    DRYHOLE Karting
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    Jul 12, 2004
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    Dallas + Seaside, Fl
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    Dryhole
    I read this thread a few weeks ago and examined my 2016 F-12 afterward. Absolutely no signs of bubbling. I picked by car up from the Ferrari dealer today after it had its annual service and drove it home. As I was putting on the cover I noticed bubbling on the driver side vent. My car was an early 2016 build date.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Sorry to hear, and sounds like it took hold quite suddenly. Trying to understand what is causing the contact between the body panel and the mesh.

    If you would be so kind, could you please check whether the mesh is in some way loose/bent/otherwise in contact with the body panel, perhaps as a result of being driven?
     
  25. jrodrig688

    jrodrig688 Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2012
    379
    FL
    Full Name:
    Jose Rodriguez
    My issue with ferrari arent the imperfections but how they handle them. The dealers in my neck of the woods - suck.
    Service personnel don’t return phone calls etc. Too much slack is allowed. In my case they are fortunate they have a captive audience.
    At the end it’s a choice and I chose it.
     
  26. Eilig

    Eilig Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2001
    1,661
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    I am contemplating purchase of a used 2013 and so far it shows no signs of this problem. However, this car has spent its entire life in a dry desert environment, and the owner claims he has never driven it in the rain. This has me wondering whether cars that are either (a) in humid environments, and/or (b) driven in the rain, may be afflicted worse than those that are not?

    Has anyone who has experienced this issue had a car that has never been driven in the rain? Or conversely, has anyone with a car NOT afflicted with this driven your car in the rain? If possible, it would be great to get some data points around this....
     
  27. Gh21631

    Gh21631 Formula 3
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    Feb 24, 2011
    2,290
    East
    In addition to the corrosion/rust issue take a look at the rippling on the front bumpers of the F12's. I looked at 2 cars and both had the same issue although one was worse than the other. The black car showed much more than red.
     

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