Hi, I am considering building a more race/track oriented machine , a bit like those Rally Climbing cars, with massive wings, hp, lightweight etc. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20CLumT2Sg[/ame] Currently I'm looking for a big rear wing that i consider putting on my f12. Something like the picture below. I need it made out of carbon, but downforce is priority, then comes weight. Do you guys know any manufacturers out there that could do the job for me? Novitec and DMC only offer some sort of carbon rear lips, but they are more about aesthetics than performance. Please, if anyone here knows a good company link it to me. P.S. Front wing is possible too, but not sure yet. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The rear wing is the easier item to create than the front spoiler. There are a large amount of rear wings out there that are typically adjustable through the support brackets as seen on the Mustang you attached. For a wing like this we would need to create a set of cut brackets that fit the F12 with adjustment provisions. We can reproduce any part in carbon fiber with a core sample or a 3D CAD file to create a mold. David Image Unavailable, Please Login
"any part" sounds like a good start. What quality carbon fiber are you using?? What type is it? Also I'm not fond of reducing the safety of the car, so larger portions of the body might be left stock.
We use a 100% carbon fiber in pre-peg form. It is then applied to a dedicated mold that is processed in an autoclave. This is the same process the factory uses to produce parts. Pre-peg carbon fiber is typically is raw carbon material with a small amount of resin already applied. When processed in an autoclave ( a large oven ) the progressive scaling of temperatures releases the resin and fuses the component as one assembly resulting in the lightest and strongest possible parts. Most components will weigh in at 1/2 or better of their original parts. Pre-peg also allows for the most uniform weave patterns on the finished part. I would suggest Matte finish for parts in a race application as added coats of clear resin will ad to the overall weight. Carbon fiber is classed by is thread count and weave pattern. Ferrari used a 3k plain weave pattern ( we call it 1x1 ) . 3000 carbon strands by 3000 carbon strands for each little block you see that produces the small checker pattern. Lamborghini, Aston, McLaren and many others use a 3k twill which is also 3000 carbon strands by 3000 carbon strands and the weave is alternated by 1 rendering a rectangular checked pattern ( we call 2x2 ) Both have the exact same strengths and properties although the 2x2 pattern is larger. CF is also found from 1k to typically 12k and is used in different applications. If you refer to the hood above the inner core on the base of the hood has a larger pattern ( 6k ). The larger material serves as reinforcement to the small weave on the face side. Otherwise more material will need to be added of the lighter material adding to the overall component weight. This allows for the lightest and strongest component possible. Correct, I would not change any of the major "cocoon" components as it is designed as a unit to protect the driver. Unless a complete molded and tested tub was created similar to the McLaren MP4-12C. David
Thank you for the long answer. What parts do you advise me to change to carbon? I feel like the hood is the only big one, that allows replacement without damaging the car's safety too much. Maybe the trunk? Also, what would be the average weight of a big, carbon fiber, rear wing similar to the one above?
Front Bonnet, Rear Bonnet and Side Skirts are an easy start. Front and rear bumpers carry a good portion of weight. Depending on your comfort level, scaling down interior items or adding carbon seats end eliminating parts or trim. Under carriage shielding can be reproduced in carbon, Air box Cover and engine shielding. Correct the "bolt on parts" are the easiest. David
I intend having the stock carbon package(front and rear diffuser) but I don't think the bonnets are cf. Do you have a 3d scanner? I would like to keep the car's original appearance as much as possible. Could you produce front and rear bonnets for me? I would love to change those with cf ones. Also the undercarriage shielding sounds like a good weight saving option. I know that the interior is a good area for weight saving possibilities but I'm not sure if I want that as of now. I plan on putting Lexan glass rear window and MAYBE side windows.
Don't bother with Ferrari carbon if you want true weight savings. They're quite frankly garbage, and for a lower price at a good shop you can get the same part made in proper dry carbon (not the laminated crap Ferrari use). I read somewhere that a 458 with all the carbon added is actually heavier than one without. Tragic and funny at the same time. No doubt someone will moan at me now for calling Ferrari carbon garbage but facts are facts... Get to a reputable independent shop, they can take molds from bumpers, doors, boot etc and shave an incredible amount of weight by getting it done in pre preg carbon. Word of advice, if you do the doors add a layer of aluminium honey comb for protection of yourself and passengers. Add two Sabelt 458 challenge seats as well, should be a good saving as well.
Wow, thanks for the advice! Ugh, was not planing to make the car so race oriented but I feel like I'm getting hooked... XD
So , Ferrari factory paint is crap, according to many things I've read here & Ferrari factory carbon fiber parts are also crap. I have no doubt those two statements are true since they come from experienced people. But Why ? is Ferrari so confident in their success so they don't need to be perfect ?
Typically clear resin is applied to dry carbon to give it a deep sheen. 3 layers in a hood weigh about 16oz so a pound here and a pound there adds up. If you are going for a look as well as function, Yes, The carbon is the weights savings material. david
I am not sure of the area you are located in as it is not in your profile. We can approach the hood and bonnet 2 different ways. 1. We can send the hood to our factory to make a direct mold. 2. If you are out of our area and for the expense of shipping a hood around. We would source a 3D imager in your area. Then either a "plug" has to be created from that CAD file and molded for the hood. Or have a hold cut from the CAD file depending on the read of the scanner. David
I've seen physical evidence of both. A lot of carbon parts from Ferrari are bloody laminated parts, which is down right unacceptable IMO when they're charging what they do for carbon parts. Carbon isn't expensive, so that theory is out...It's a little time consuming yes, but the 4K cup holder for example, contains less than $20 worth of carbon material, and you're not telling me that they're putting ~50 hours of work into it . It's a simple part, doesn't align with anything (doesn't have to IMO). It'll take a worker less than 10 minutes to make part and just has to go in the oven really. Add to the fact that part is most likely laminate as well...scandalous. Pagani has mastered it IMO. Compare the Zonda to the Enzo for instance (both similar price brackets for the F and Enzo when new). Quite how they got the Zonda to weigh 100kg less than the Enzo, whilst the former has a sound system, much heavier engine, a finished interior etc, is absolutely beyond me.
