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F12 TDF current market pricing and volume

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by gzachary, May 12, 2020.

  1. gzachary

    gzachary Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 10, 2011
    343
    California
    I have noticed more TDFs up for sale in the US recently. I am not very surprised given the economic background. I have noticed that the listing range for TDFs has expanded and the lower end of pricing has more cars. What I cannot tell is whether the more highly priced cars are actually being transacted or just being held out for asking price.

    Not sure what others have seen or know about transactions that are occurring. With SF90 and/or a potential TDF-like version of the 812, I am curious as to your thoughts.

    Thanks!
     
  2. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    567
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    I will wait for recession prices at 40-50% off. Too early to buy these cars- unless you don’t care about the money. Car prices typically bottom very late in a recession. We are at the beginning.
     
  3. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    421
    San Diego, CA
    I am super curious to know this as well. Definitely wanna pick up an F12 TDF
     
  4. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    911
    Austin TX
    There is no recession, at least not in the traditional sense and the current economic situation will not take its time to resolve as a traditional recession would as markets absorb excesses, etc.

    As more apparently becomes known about an 812VS, one thing is apparently "confirmed", it will not be limited edition. That alone will make it quite different than the tdF. And, if the 812VS has any supplementary device to "boost" output, chances are it will not be well received as Ferrari has no particular success with this on V12 engines (i.e. never a turbo, and only hybrid/KERS has numerous problems including a very short lived boost period and has at least 2 recalls for battery software issues and hybrid drivetrain that can require expensive repairs when regularly used).

    The SF90 has already destroyed the 812SF order pipeline (which evaporated at the same time the SF90 was revealed and has not come back).

    So, question really is this, if an 812VS appears, what will it be? Something very different apparently, so, comparison to the tdF will be even less likely to be a concern.

    As for tdF prices, I doubt any of its owners are in "distressed seller" situation, so they will likely continue to trade as they have.

    As for increased numbers, I haven't notice anything special, could you indicate where you are finding them? Last Friday I looked around and found about 10 for sale, that is a fairly typical number.
     
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  5. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    4,651
    East
    I think this is spot on
     
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  6. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
    103
    Full Name:
    SirPouyan
    I heard from someone (who admittedly has an interest in making me want to purchase a VS) that it will in fact be limited - to something around 812 units.

    I have been wondering why the SF market took such a hit, and assumed that it was because lots guys bought it in order to get the GTS and they don't really want to keep the car. Your explanation sounds more plausible.

    Yes, maybe TdF sellers are not distressed. But why would any car class be immune to anything affecting other price categories? Also, I have seen three TdF's for sale at my dealer in the past month! I have actually seen the cars. I know they are for sale. The preceding twelve months, I saw one TdF only.[/QUOTE]
     
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  7. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
    103
    Full Name:
    SirPouyan
    I have seen - in the space of the past month - three different TdF's for sale at my dealer. All three priced at or under 1M.

    In all of 2019, I only saw one TdF for sale at same dealer.

    Prices definitely dropping, and supply definitely increasing. At least, from what I see.
     
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  8. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    911
    Austin TX
    I have also read of various rumors, but, Ferrari, for instance, the Pista, has apparently abandoned production capped/limited editions other than those in the hyper-car-like price level (i.e. Monza).

    Being that Ferrari is a now public company (versus when the tdF was rolled out), I believe "time limited" will be the only production limits for all other than hypercar/Icona models.

    I have often found tdFs listed around $1M, nothing unusual there, that's been the way for years. Yes, sub-100 mile cars are usually listed higher (no surprise there). Back in early 2019 I did a little research and found more than 20 tdFs available, now I find about 10,...the market does ebb and flow...

    Your dealer, apparently part of the Mattioli group (owns several Ferrari dealerships in California), sometimes lists cars for sale at a specific dealership when the car itself is actually at another.

    And if it is the Mattioli group, they had more than 1 tdF listed in 2019, many more. If that's not the dealer (group), are you able to reveal the entity?
     
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  9. George330

    George330 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2009
    869
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    The 812VS will be limited according to my sources. It also seems like there might be a convertible version too (a la 599 SA) which will be even more limited

    In any case, TDF prices are dropping and will continue to drop. Once the car is superseded by the new model, there is very little reason for it to trade at a huge premium to the -rarer- 599GTO.

    That is not to say it is anything but a fantastic car. I love mine, it is one of the all - time Ferrari greats, but I don’t think anyone should rush to buy now.



    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  10. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
    103
    Full Name:
    SirPouyan
    Not online - cars I have actually seen and sat in. One car in all of 2019, and three since Covid began.
     
  11. F140FG

    F140FG Karting

    Apr 10, 2020
    65
    Full Name:
    Ferrari Ferrari
    But didn't Ferrari say they were not going to make a Hybrid V12 after the LaF? What has changed?
     
  12. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    911
    Austin TX
    Here's a thought, several Monza's are being produced for USA clients, perhaps some of the tdFs you are seeing are in response to incoming Monza deliveries...
     
  13. carz80am

    carz80am Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2015
    423
    Northern Virginia/DC
    Many dealers have cars for sale that are not listed online, call around and you'll find more tdf along with speciale aperta and others. Their are people dumbping exotics and many dealers aren't writing checks, all are on consignment, some dealers never wrote checks, but even less now...
     
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  14. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    911
    Austin TX
    This video and the odd "turbo whistle" noise heard is cause for speculation:



    the curious sounds occur during the following "seconds"

    10-12

    26-30
     
  15. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    911
    Austin TX
    If a car is on consignment and is not being advertised, I think that is more likely someone just testing the waters and is not serious. That actually happens all the time and the car would only be 'consigned' if the dealer found a bona-fide buyer, that enables a seller to put out a wider net by having several dealers function as an intermediary for them without actually committing to any of them....

    As for 'dumping' what sort of asking prices are you aware of?
     
  16. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 31, 2001
    2,512
    Full Name:
    Cavallo
    Tastefully spec'd tdf's w/solid history rarely reach market. Change hands in private transactions, facilitated by dealer.
     
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  17. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
    103
    Full Name:
    SirPouyan
    Thanks for posting this. The whistle is unmistakable.
     
  18. carz80am

    carz80am Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2015
    423
    Northern Virginia/DC
    When I say consigned, I mean sitting at that particular dealership for sale but not advertised. When I say dumping, I don't mean taking 500k for a tdf, I just mean selling their cars off. TDF's are moving in the 700-800's as previously mentioned in other threads. Wouldn't be surprised if one moves/moved in the 600's. My local dealer has a matching tdf and speciale aperta for 1.35 as a package deal. Not listed anywhere for sale.Talk to dealer last week that has a tdf available, again, not listed on their website but at their location.
     
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  19. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
    103
    Full Name:
    SirPouyan
    Ok, I understand better. I didn't know how consignment worked with multiple dealers.

    700-800K is the general transaction price range? In that case they are really dropping. I know of a nice spec with delivery miles that sold for between 1.0 and 1.1M late last year in a private (unadvertised) transaction.
     
  20. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2004
    911
    Austin TX
    I have found, many times owners will store their cars at a dealer who will then store them in the showroom as 'eye candy' to build traffic. It is quite unlikely a dealer will have an unadvertised for-sale car sitting on their showroom floor unless it is a new car that has been abandoned (but that does not apply to tdFs which are all owned).

    If asked, the dealer will let the owner know there is interest.

    As for tdFs selling in the 700-800 range, in the USA, I have not found any evidence of this at all and I actually do check on this a few times a year, most recently in the past several weeks, and if you know of any such tdFs please post details.

    As for selling under 700, outside of a salvage title, I do not think that will ever occur with the tdF.

    As for the package deal tdF+458SA, the paint schemes are truly original and seeking a very special buyer who will be definitely a one-off type of person, those cars are not of interest to most buyers at all hence their longevity on the market.

    I believe you are referring to these cars:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    https://blog.dupontregistry.com/ferrari/matching-ferrari-f12tdf-458-speciale-aperta/

    if so, please indicate where they are listed or available for 1.35M, if not, please direct me to them, thank you
     
  21. carz80am

    carz80am Formula Junior

    Sep 23, 2015
    423
    Northern Virginia/DC
    #21 carz80am, May 13, 2020
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  22. F140FG

    F140FG Karting

    Apr 10, 2020
    65
    Full Name:
    Ferrari Ferrari
    What if it had been had on purpose?
     
  23. F140FG

    F140FG Karting

    Apr 10, 2020
    65
    Full Name:
    Ferrari Ferrari
    *add
     
  24. SirPouyan

    SirPouyan Karting

    Oct 18, 2017
    103
    Full Name:
    SirPouyan
    you mean artificially added to play mind games?
     
  25. George330

    George330 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2009
    869
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    never say never. A low mileage TDF changed hands in Switzerland for 650 CHF in March, which is less than 700k USD. Private sale, person to person.
    And speaking to luxury car dealers across Europe no one will write a cheque on it unless it is in the low 600s

    The US is a different market, but prices are dropping for sure



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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