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Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by Ferrari 308 Vetro, Nov 9, 2015.
Are there any cars in the Market, for sale?
I think not yet.
I know someone who is selling his..not sure if its already sold.
Price was about 120K over sticker.
Ferrari already delivered cars?
First cars being delivered at the end of this week I think.
Sucks that greedy speculators get allocations while real drivers don't.
That was fast! I thought that they would deliver in 2016.
If the 458 Speciale Aperta is expected to fetch approx $200K over sticker price I would imagine that the last V12 NA tdf would get no less than than the Speciale Aperta and likely more in my opinion....
One thing for sure... it won't be Steve Wynn!
What I am seeing is a manefestation of shamefully improper business practices and ethics if they are truly about to deliver these cars while passing over those who have had other models, F12 in my case, in the que long before the TDF was even announced.
I hate hearing this so early on with all the fuss made about allocation and certification of future owners. It also sounds very cheap at that level as I would expect more like $200k+
It may only be small comfort, but the days of the easy flip is fast disappearing. Each LE car is specced to the point they are almost unique. And with the mobile web and social media, it's not difficult for Ferrari to see a car that's moving between owners. Someone I know had his new 458 SA photographed on an indie dealer's website, within hours Ferrari noticed and made the Ferrari dealer who sold the car immediately check the 458 SA's status. The owner claimed it was a misunderstanding, that the indie dealer had taken a pic without his knowledge
I'm not so sure. The 599 GTO flat-lined for 3 years until mid 2013. By mid 2013 even a Trabant was increasing in value. The market is now cooling and 2016/17 is far from certain. Not to mention the TDF will have a meaty optioned price here and 799 units worldwide. It didn't bother me about the 599 GTO as it's a keeper. Same with the TDF.
Or at least sometime this month, I personally saw 5 completed customer cars at the factory last week. Presuming they have all the final software tuning done, they looked ready to roll! Like the LaF, I'm going to guess that there will be several "first delivery" events that they have to manage to preserve client egos....
I am sure that this happens, interestingly all but one of the 10 LaF owners I know still have their cars, and all of the people I know getting a TDF plan on keeping them at least for a while. Personally it seems like the speculation activity on the GT3 RS was stronger than on Speciales and Apertas.
To the point made above, Ferrari seem to be getting better at monitoring who gets the cars and where they are. They cannot prevent anyone from flipping a car, but they can likely ensure that someone who does that won't get another chance to do it, and dealers will likely want to avoid the implications.
799 buyers is always going to include a small portion of flippers… Impossible to prevent, but the best way for Ferrari to do that is the max out the MSRP and take the flip profit for themselves. Looks like they starting to understand that. Good for them.
My dealer told me that on any limited model that they sell and the buyer flips before the one year deadline expires they are fined $10,000 by Ferrari.
Dealers can make buyers sign "first right of refusal" at sale to allow them to buy at "market value but not more than MSRP" language. This dissuades flippers since there is less profit to be had (except for the dealer).
Based on the discussions I've had and the info on this site, I think they have understood this for quite some time.
I was just in Hong Kong this past week, met a F guy who has a 599GTO, 550, 458 Speciale, and a couple other Ferrari.
Here is the deal for him to get a TDF, which he is doing. He has to buy a regular F12 new and then they will sell him a TDF. So he has to take the hit on the F12(he is dumping it asap), to get the TDF he wants. the car tax there on new cars is 100% so they pay double what Americans pay.
I dont know who's rule that is, sounds like a dealer not Ferrari. But thats whats happening. So about $900,000 & change for the regular F12 and then what ever he loses when he sells it. The tax will mostly pass thru, but not 100%.
So is a $100K over really that much? depends on what matters and how bad you want it. And he has a great car collection, has a Pagani Hyura coming as well-i mite have spelled that wrong. 100K over seems like a better deal than that for a TDF.
to say the "drivers dont get the cars" , comm'on the guys who got the bread get the cars. thats nothing new.
I paid a althelte who never drove his Enzo about 400K over his cost, I drove it, until i got so sick with back problems i sold it, i made $225K on it, had i kept it i'd have made a million more. Should the current owner give it to a desperate person who wants to drive the piss out of it? Or should he keep it because he can???
like i said 2 other times today "Keep it Real", and a couple weeks ago with the finance post, whats going on here? kids-not owners? Dreamers?
Hey PJ - was that Continental who told you that?
Besides that's pretty normal from I've found out with other dealers too.
There is two that I know about.
Not delivered yet, can't share specs.
what is the MSRP on the TdF?
I have been saying it for 15 years, the entire Ferrari game selling cars MSRP to mystery clients and then trying to penalize dealers and owners who flip is BS!!!
If dealers were allowed to conduct a free market and have an auction for all these special editions then the dealer and ultimately Ferrari would achieve more profit, not shady wanker flippers and 3rd party dealers. Ferrari tries to blame others for this toxic system, yet they were the ones that created and continue it!
Look at it like the stock market - take the flippers as representing the free float in a company. Essentially they establish a "market price" for the car. Ferrari may look dimly on flippers officially and there will be lots of tut tutting from people that think they think they should have been on the list. Think about it - for Ferrari to be able to charge high prices for limited editions, there has to be a perceived market value both monetary and cache. Like it or not, flippers do this and I suspect Ferrari is not unaware of this!!
Yes, but here is the kicker..An actual occurrence where a buyer for a 458 A chose to cancel his order to buy the topless version and the dealer still had to pony up the 10K to Ferrari.