F12 tdf market price thread

4 cars currently for sale at just over 1m + taxes (1.25 all in)...2 in Germany, 2 in Belgium (two black, one grey, one silver)...Plus one white car with 10'000 km for 900k EUR net... prices are dropping...Here in Switzerland there are 2 cars for sale around 1.3 EUR incl tax and not selling for months, a black car sold new for 1.1m EUR incl tax and one with 3000km slightly lower. 2 owners planning to put their cars in the market over the next couple of weeks...There are a lot of 918s in the market, not all of them advertised for obvious reasons. The cars you see on the internet have been advertised since summer

I am on the lookout for one, so I tend to follow them all! The UK is probably the worst place to look for one, prices are ridiculous

 

Yup for a M, lots of better choices

 

No requirement to make public disclosure that gets into the details of exact production numbers of individual cars, but that's not quite the issue.

Ferrari's independent public auditors will get into that level of detail in the course of doing their audit of Ferrari's public financials and of Ferrari's internal controls over financial reporting, and if they are publicly stating a 799 number (has Ferrari in fact been firm about that number, or are we all assuming this??), the auditors will quickly know if they've gone above it, and that could well create Exchange Act Section 10A and internal controls issues.

 

Yes. Things that were not "material" before the separation may indeed be material now...

SV

 

+1000!

 

Hi Fabio, as we cannot send you PM please advise how we can contact you!

 

Not to belabor (too much) but, selling 880 when your marketing team says you will be selling 799 is not an "illegal act" from a 10a point of view. Saying that you sold 880 when you really sold 799 is.

But I guess that's for lawyers to argue (and I am not a lawyer)

 

I think the only issue is how easy it is for customers and the market place to find out how many were really made and then if that has any impact on the values going forward. They have a nice setup for these LE cars right now. If that were to be negatively affected there could be trouble for future runs and it could just be a little bit embarrassing.

They have been firm on the 799 cars and my theory is the increased scrutiny and also the newness of the scrutiny means they said 799 because that is really really close to the actual number they will make. Could it be 801 or 810? Maybe. I doubt they will go ~20% beyond it as has been alleged to have occurred with other past models.

 

I'd be careful about that. Particularly under the Obama administration, the question is, have you as a company done something that can be used profitably by politicians or bureaucrats to bolster their careers? If yes, they'll find a way to make the law fit the act. Nailing Ferrari -- a high flying company catering to 0.1 percenters -- is an Obama prosecutor's wet dream.

The statute expressly states that auditors are required to take 10A action when they detect an illegal act, regardless of whether it has a material affect on the financial statements.

Intentionally overstating production to inflate financial results is liable to be fraud under US securities laws.

Intentionally understating production to increase the perceived desirability of a limited edition vehicle is liable to be fraud for purposes of numerous laws (in the US, both state and federal) relating to consumer protection. A 10A "illegal act" is an act that violates any law. Not just securities anti-fraud laws.

 

Agree. The stakes are too high. And they know there are F car crazies out there who try to track every VIN!!!

 

It's a 288 GTO . Tom Williamson owned it for years I believe. My understanding was it was tweaked by Michelotto

 

at the risk of this becoming a "Sarbanes/Oxley, SAB 101, Dodd/Frank, EuroSox, IFRS....

A few comments from my myriad of experiences.

true, but only if the deviation was made in the normal course of business, was in fact true, good faith business that was accretive (i.e. not side deals) though fair channels, and if reported previously and retroactively. Business plans change over time. Reporting is focused on confirming what the plans where, what happened, the reconciliation of that and reporting. I also believe if you probe 1mm under any formal agreement, the safe harbor statements of fine print, there are always exceptions to noted and reported.

Yes, depending on what Ferrari sets up as their reporting structure and chart of accounts, so specific volumes of a model can, can not be, included - depending on they have set up their internal accounting and reporting stantards. In reality, most companies set up their reporting to balance the news the company wants to share with the detail the analysts will demand.

CORRECT!

The question is, when you buy a new Special or LE car, do you have a contract that expressly states this is unit 1 of X? that's a binding contract. Until then, 799 is just marketing speak to get interest and excitement growing;

 

t

#58337

 

Imprinted on the infotainment cover of each 599 GTO are the words "One of 599" . This of course gives Ferrari some cushion in reporting actual GTO's built. But it also serves to stop potential clients bombarding their dealers and the factory with requests for certain production numbers. Like i want my GTO to be #333 because its my lucky number or maybe my lucky number is #7. That kind of thing can drive everybody crazy and do nothing but upset many clients who do not get their number. It's simply a no win option for Ferrari and serves no useful purpose.

 

same thing with the tdf
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I wonder if it's just coincidence that the unofficial number of 599 GTOs made that I've seen on various forums is in the range of 750-800, and that 799 is the official number for the tdf?

 

I understand your point about marketing speak but I think it could be more than that in the proper circumstances. Since these cars never seem to go down in value I don't think theres too much risk of a problem. Also it seems a bit of an open secret.

Camlet1, I know some guys who count these numbers and it sure seems to me that it's not coincidence.

Again, just my humble personal opinion.

 

Nice piece. I`m at two. likely be at least 16 more years to hit 5 lol. well done

 

Thanks. Good luck! Family and health come first but being able to add to your Ferrari stable through hard work is right up there

 

You clearly know more than me about this stuff and are in tune with it...

However...

I would say it would be rather difficult or rather improbable for that to get any traction when they build an additional say 10-15%. Wouldn't there have to be some calculatable damages?

And to the .1% point. The only people getting hurt by ferrari building too many cars isn't there share holders. Its there.1% clients. So by your logic.... the admin wouldn't give 2 ****s that the .1% were getting harmed by this.

The political spin would be that they are pursing problems that only effect the .1%

Producing more cars helps the "regular guy" More cars means more car washes, detailers, mechanics, sales commsissions, state registrations, import duties... etc...

No one is getting hurt and no one is getting in trouble.

Besides... if we have been robing from public education for so long and no one cares... do you think people give 2 ****s about 20 extra cars being built? Especially when each original owner received a massive financial gain... To those that think that to them I say


GOOD LUCK

(the later portion of this message is not directed at you... just general conversation)

 

You are thinking perfectly logically and rationally, but you are not thinking like a prosecutor or a regulator. Damages are wholly irrelevant. And remember what they got Goldman Sachs for after the financial crisis? The victim, so called, was not a regular Joe but a massive German bank. What you're missing is how thoroughly Machiavellian the government is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I literally made an account just for this post lol. So as you can see from the time stamp today's date is June 17th 2016. I was just on jamesedition.com and was looking at F12's for sale when I stumbled apon an F12 TDF....for a million US dollars! $ 1,061,530

Link below:

2016 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta, Haar/ Munich Germany - JamesEdition

Thats insane considering the $490,000 MSRP

More than double sticker!!

 

Seems reasonable. On another post, one sold in 24 hours for apparently $1.5m! http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ff-gtc4lusso-f12/525248-us-spec-f12-tdf-available.html