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F12 tdf vs 812

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by Eilig, Feb 15, 2019.

  1. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    I'm not sure about that. Cars with accident history is always going to stick for the rest of its life. Mileage on the other hand, will become less of a factor if you stretch it out over the long run. 12k miles might sound like a lot on a 2 year old car, but if it's 10 years? 20 years? Less so!

     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    Are u kidding? 20k mile f40a and f50s trade at huge discounts to 5k mile cars and f40 is 30 yrs old
     
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  3. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    So let me ask you in another way. Would you pay more or less money for a F50 with 5K (but the car has been crashed previously) or a 15K F50 without any history?

    I would pay more for the 15K example with no history.

     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    id pay the same
     
  5. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
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    I would not buy the crashed one.
     
  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    A crash and bump are 2 different things


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  7. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Exactly.
    Carfax usually states "damage" or "accident" history without telling the whole story.
    My old Carrera GT had that on report but it did not explain the "damage" was a paint job on driver's door from a bouncing tire on the tollway.
    It affected the value of my (otherwise pristine) car easily by $50k, at a time when retail was $400k, not today at $700K.
     
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  8. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    I would argue that most collectors wouldn't even look at a car with a damage history, regardless of whether if it's a bump or some kind of crash. When I inspect a car pre-purchase, if I see any type of paint respray, I walk away. I don't even want to find out the "supposedly" real story, because anybody can BS anything at that point. A respray is a respray and it potentially opens up a whole different can of worms.

     
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  9. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    At least 50k knocked off easily. I looked at more than 35 Carrera GT back in the days before I bought mine. As soon as I see a repair or repaint of some sort, I walk away.

     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    Most cars off the boat get resprayed and have been resprayed.


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  11. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    Bold claims, got any proof?

     
  12. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    Common knowledge- like its cold in the winter and warm in the summer


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  13. ttn27

    ttn27 Formula 3
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    Even if this is true, which I doubt...may be a few cars but “most” is likely an over exaggeration..., at least this is not reported on carfax as a storied car.
     
  14. absent

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    Not bold claims.
    I worked at MB dealer for 5 years and 2 years for MBUSA Midwest Franklin Park headquarters.
    You have no idea how many of these so called "brand spanking new" Benzes had been resprayed, some more, some less.
    Bumpers, tail and headlights replaced routinely.
    As for the Carfax report, you have proved my point, ANY kind of repair, no matter how insignificant for the car as a whole, disqualifies it in the eyes of most potential buyers.
    Not everyone is out there to "get you" , some are telling the truth also.
    I had photos of the smudge on my door but it did not matter in the end....
     
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  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    Yup. Not a secret by any means.
     
  16. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    #66 unotaz, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
    If you want to be technical, let's. Any bodyshop repair done at the port, as long it's under 6% of the car's MSRP, the dealer does not need to notify the end customer. However, if you have a good relationship with your dealer (which I do), then your dealer will be able to go into their internal system and tell if there is any record of "entering into bodyshop". The system won't say the details of the repair, but it's always a phone call away to the person in charge at the port and they always have records of what was done.

    Any respray or touch up, upon close inspection, is easily recognizable. None of my cars have any paint work done to the car, as I always personally inspect the paint prior to delivery, along with my detailer. I have denied delivery of 3 cars on the basis of bad paint/repaint, including a 599 GTO, which was passed on to the next customer waiting (he didn't care) and Ferrari made another one for me.

    But it's not MOST cars, especially when you are talking about Ferrari or Porsches, especially the limited/special models, which is the majority of what I have in my collection.

    P.S. For the record, I think Ferrari paint quality is getting crappier by the year. Clearcoat is getting thinner and correctly finishing the paint is non-existent.

     
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  17. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    For the regular Mercedes, sure I believe that's the case. But how about a Project One or the SLR? Do you think if one of those cars was repainted/damaged, someone wouldn't find out?

    It's one thing when you sell a 50K C-Class to the regular Joe, you could do a touch up and nobody would care, but it's another thing when you sell a million dollar car to high-end clients. Case in point, a 918 Spyder was damaged in port, Porsche notified the customer right away of the cracked front bumper and decided to take all of the panels apart, air freight them back to Germany for a full respray so the color would match. New front bumper was replaced, along with the rest of the panels, all resprayed at the factory under the factory control and then they air freight the panels back to be put back on the car.

    On the other hand, I see Macan/Cayenne with repainted bumpers a lot, but 90% of those clients don't care or can't tell the difference anyways.



     
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  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    nothing ur saying disagrees with what i said, so what are you carrying on about? cars often get damaged on the boat ride over.
     
  19. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    You are saying MOST cars, as in greater than 50%. I am saying it's a lot LESS.

     
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  20. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 Veteran
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    Ok u win


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  21. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
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    I can’t imagine spending that much time examining paint. I drive my cars, I don’t keep them that clean, I think all the money I spent on film will look like a bad investment in five years as the material fails and paint peels with replacement.

    It just depends on your personality and make up I think. There are lots of extremely detail oriented people who sweat the small stuff. There are others who think a clean desk is the sign of a sick mind.

    It is nice that we are all out there. Lots of choices and lots of relationships. I think rejecting three cars and going through over thirty CGT’s would make most salespeople jump off a building. But that’s just my opinion. I just could never see myself being that way.

    Life is way too short. Enjoy it how you want. Driving a Ferrari sure makes it more fun for me! Especially an F12 TdF!!! Took one of mine to the A’s game tonight with my wife. Great drive both ways and we won! Win-win-win.
     
  22. willcrook

    willcrook Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2009
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    the market is absurd.

    I honestly wouldn't blame anyone who clocks them to reverse some of the mileage as otherwise it's costing you hundreds of dollars a mile in depreciation
     
  23. unotaz

    unotaz Formula Junior

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    I will admit it, I am quite anal when it comes to my cars. Drive, wash, wax, and repeat.

    Can't help it, as I am a shareholder in a top notch body shop in SoCal as a side business. ;)

     
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