F12 tdf vs 812

IDK.
I lust after the TDF, not the GTO despite the latter having the name. And at $550k, seems like a good buy vs TDF still ~$950k.

 

Because you would own an F12TdF.

 

I lust after the GTO & TDF

 

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599 GTO and TDF is at least somewhat redundant. But I also have ocd and feel the need to pick the "best" car that does three other models do separately (TDF).

 

I think you can get a TDF for 50% more than a 599GTO...having owned both I can tell you it IS worth 50% more!


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Maybe in EU, but not in USA, yet.

 

I think you will find a number very vocal tdf die-hards here who will tell you that unless you own/drive the car you don't have a valid point of view. Have driven many times but not owned one, and for me the 812 is a better drivers car - more predictable, and quicker in real world situations I would say the tdf arrived in 2015 into a hot market and people went a bit crazy about it. Now peoples views and prices are adjusting. Out in the wider world, opinions are way more mixed about the tdf than what you might be led to conclude reading here, particularly around its unpredictable handling.

 

The raw nature is precisely why it will be highly coveted, much like CGT and similar.

 

I agree with you that "rawness" is often prized. I think you can have a car that is raw and very precise and predictable while being challenging. From my younger racing days, for me, the F40 is one of those cars. After the specific issues with the tires on the Carrera GT were sorted out, that is another of those cars. In my opinion the tdf is not in the same boat - the handling is quite far from predictable. That certainly won't stop one flooring it in a straight line and enjoying all the rawness that come with, but it not accomplished as the other two. All down to opinion, in the end.

 

I have 10.5k miles on my 812 and test drove the 599 GTO, really wanting to like it and trade “up” for it (yes, big hit $ wise but so be it). It definitely sounded great and was a louder sound, but not necessarily a better sound. I generally lower my windows a bit when driving the 812. GTO handled like a heavy car and didn’t feel nimble at all. I was/am happy to trade comfort for something more visceral but I didn’t find that the GTO was the “360 CS” of the V12’s. Do you guys feel that the TDF may achieve that?

 

I have not driven the 812.
I have driven my TDF and CS back to back, and they are apples and oranges. If pressed, I would keep the CS, regardless of price. Personally I find the TDF too muffled/muted. Once that’s fixed it should be wonderful.
Some dont like the “stigma” but a visceral event can be had in the AV SJV or Roadster. Close to TDF money so you have to decide what you like. I find the AVs to have more driving drama.

 

Thanks, that’s helpful. After driving the GTO and owning the CS the “worry” is that TDF will be a little more of a marginal leap over the 812 than I might find to be worth the $ (esp given the fact I’d likely put a lot of miles on). Let’s see when you get your F40! I’m betting that’ll be the CS++.

 

Have been leaning more towards f50. Open top, sound.

 

Nice! On my list as well, though F40 I think people seem to drive them more and delta from putting on some miles much smaller, but maybe that’s just biased from looking at auction results. Guess it depends on financial approach / how much you plan to drive it.

 

My take is the TDF is more akin to the Speciale than the CS. I've only had very limited time driving CS but I put 2,000 miles on my 812 and several hundred on TDF. I dont think you can compare the 812 and the TDF. Lots of little differences which really add up. In my opinion the place the 812 is really let down is the EPAS. (electronic power steering). It is very good, but it not as linear and feelsome as the prior steering system. The TDF feels a lighter and more lithe car than the 812. I find the exhaust note to be absolutely fantastic and I dont want for any more at all. I think its the best modern Ferrari period.

I do agree with you that the 599 GTO feels more like a hotted up GT car, so, relative to the newer cars, the GTO doesn't shrink around you as much, everything is slower, the steering, the suspension, though I think the GTO has a better induction noise than anything else thats modern and I also think the brake feel and modulation on the GTO is one of the better ones. So to me GTO is a hotted up GT car- and it is quite hot! On its own its quite remarkable, but TDF is the king, TDF is really a front engine hypercar. Both cars you have to really drive to get something out of them.

But we are all different, like different things, etc. So that's just my take.

 

Thanks. Makes sense to me. I will try and drive F40 and TDF in 2021 and see how it goes! Watching out for 812 VS as well.

 

I will echo these wise comments. The TDF is like a Speciale on steroids. Everything is amp’d up and yet the car feels incredibly nimble and agile for a larger car.
The rear wheel steering does contribute to this and makes the car shrink down and feel tighter and shorter.
Agree, the feel is hypercar territory where you can’t just punch the throttle, as you will produce wheel spin that will break the car loose. It is also the peak unadulterated engine note of pure NA V12 (prior to GPF 812’s) that reverberates chapel bells at 9k rpm.
I’ve driven an F12 and 599 (gtb) which fall miles below the TDF. I have yet to drive an 812, but many owners say it’s much more tame than a TDF.


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Biased, this is THE best pair!


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This thread is like arguing about what super model to bring home...


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As many as possible!

Happy New Year!


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