F142M-FL

People keep making comments like this. Two word answer Cayman GT4. Look at its value then think about it.

 

Just wait for Geneva, now we talk for nothing, other brands don’t offer much more so why Ferrari go home ? Further coming technologies is amazing. Don’t forget ferrari develop hall technology in house is don’t case of other brands just for that I respect ferrari

 

Pista and GTB are two different products and not everyone wants a hardcore Pista, that's why Ferrari is about to unveil a facelifted GTB while waiting for its "true" successor (breaking its normal cycle as Ferr9000 explained a few days ago).

 

Truely said, I cannot imagine that the upcoming successor to 488GTB will be just a visual facelift and not many hp more under the hood. Ferrari has to add some extra "value" to the 3-year-old 488, because making a weaker version after the Pista would be a major let down. They gave us great 812superfast after the track oriented F12tdf, so we'd like to expect a move forward also in V8 range.

 

As I noted in the "other" 488 successor/replacement/facelift thread - incidentally called "488 Replacement" and where the M-FL is being referred to as the replacement while the real new car is BB - sounds like the F142 platfrom will be reused. Kind of like when mainstream manufacturers continue an old model in parallel with its replacement and give it the "Classic" moniker. Think Mercedes C-Class Classic ;-)

So, at the end of the day, F142-M (aka FL or LB) will, in effect, be the entry-level "Dino" model that so many were predicting, only without the V6.

Mind you, M-FL would be a good platform to introduce the V6. If the performance of that engine is as good as some in the know are saying it is, combined with its lighter weight and compactness (w/o hybrid obviously), this would result in a car with excellent performance and handling qualities that could better the current 488. Would have to be because surely Ferrari will not introduce a replacement with lesser performance.

 

Ferr9000 also dropped a hint about the "Dino", saying a "very little brother" (and "not the Dino itself") is in Ferrari's plans (probably for 2020, a year "full of surprises" according to him).

Hopefully some things will be more clear in a couple of months. Far too many models to discuss/speculate about..

 

Don't you think that info about BB premiere can harm the 488M (F-L) sales? Or BB will be of limited availability like Pista?

 

If the rumors are true, this car will be a facelift for a facelift car (488 was a 458 facelift). Doesn't make any sense and I'm sure many of us expect more, especially from Ferrari.

 

The rumours say, we'll have two V8 presentations this year, one V8TT (7th March, in Geneva) and V8TT Hybrid (BB) about two months later (not disclosed exactly where). What will Ferrari do to BB not cannibalize and prematurely depreciate the upcoming 488 facelift? Maybe the V8TT Hybrid will be the mini-LaFerrari which some people were expected at some point of time. Mini-LaFerrari but for less money than LaF also. The open question still is, will it be limited production model or normal production run. Anyway, we can expect a proper (high) price, maybe use of carbon fibre in the tub (?), and kickass performance (this is a must).
Will not 488 facelift look dated when 2 months later the next Ferrari V8 (Hybrid) debuts?

 

With the 488's true replacement (evolution in performance and new platform) being the predicted BB (and/or its LB, if true) the only two scenarios that make sense for F142M-FL are:

1/ Limited edition run of a special design, kind of like J50, but not necessarily performance oriented - perhaps more stylish and personalized.

2/ A lower cost, "entry-level" car priced under the obviously higher price point of the BB. This is possible because, if reusing the F142 platform, development costs will be limited. Also, like at every facelift, a different engine or engine spec is introduced so either the goodies from the Pista or maybe a displacement or boost increase will ensure adequate performance gains. In fact it would be fun if they installed the rumored V6 and gain performance from the more compact powerplant.

 

Think about it, no sense to launch a facelift of a facelift and then introduce a complete redesign 1-2 years later. It would be a waste, especially on a platform that's 10 years old.

 

76 K€ net benefits by car is not enought, apparently...So, they want more and consequently producing an old new car with this 458 n 3

 

I think that's the main point of the FL. Since they're shaking the V8 segment with a whole, new (and more powerful) entry, they also decided to make the "base" model feel a little more fresh and probably lower the performance delta with the upcoming BB at the same time.

 

My guess is that they have a real issue continuing to sell the unchanged 488 under competition pressure, and the real replacement for this market segment (V6 on new platform) will arrive too late.

 

I think they sould buy the pista as a normal range, and produce an RS pista version more limited ( actual pista commercial strategy )
It ll be more exiting and more coherent !

 

The Pista can only be sold at its price with the claimed "exclusivity", no way it would sell at this price as a regular range model.

 

The F142-FL makes a lot of sense to me. They are developing a new line (we have called it BB) which takes development time and resource. To slot the extra car in they are giving a facelift to 488 to extend its life (customers will be fine because it will be a short run like F512M, the ugliest but most valuable TR), meaning that the all-new 488 development cycle now comes after or at the same time as new 720, in turn meaning that it will be harder for McLaren to simply launch their key car two years after Ferrari knowing what they have to aim at. Now it will be a straight fight with both having to commit to their product spec without knowing what the other will launch. Plus, Ferrari will have made room for a new and highly profitable new model line. I think customer wins and I’m pretty certain Ferrari wins, and the competitor loses. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

If McLaren can sell the 720 for £220,000, why can't a similarly performing Pista sell for £250k, given the gravitas of the Ferrari name?

 

You can buy a decently optioned brand new 720S for $300K from the showroom floor. They're being discounted in order to move, never underestimate the thirst of a dealer wanting to increase YoY sales. Special ordered cars are a different story and won't be priced as well.

Pista is 50% more, Ferrari saw what happened to 458 Speciale values and decided not to leave any money on the table.

 

Published figures are £218020 for the 720S and £252765 for the Pista, and with Ferrari's game of mandatory options the gap is certainly far higher than that.
In France the real prices are €249165 for the 720S and €317512 for the Pista (although the magazines would tell you the list price of the Pista is €291710), before any option on both cases. This actual difference of €68K is somewhat higher than the £30K you mention.
This shows that the Pista targets customers with a different motivation - at the equivallent of £250K (€280K) I would have bought a Pista in a heartbeat, for its qualities as a car (actually I was fine to go up to €300K or even a little more); people paying more than €350K (which is more or less the minimum price for a Pista very lightly optioned) have to value the alleged exclusivity they get and not only consider the car even taking into account it's a Ferrari.

 

Gotta keep the shareholders happy, I guess. Maybe it's an experiment to see how far they can go with a refresh. Nevertheless, pretty sure the car will exceed the performance of the 488, if not the Pista, so will be an improvement.

Combined with a makeover in the looks department, I'm sure it'll sell very well.

Found this sketch (not mine) on the internet and it looks like a plausible design for the M-FL. In fact, the profile at the the front, taking cues from the J50, even looks like the camo'd BB. Note that the artist incorporated the Dino-type vents on the front bonnet to further drive home the "entry-level" positioning of the car.

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As I noted already, would be nice to see the rumored high-power-density V6 installed to reduce weight and inertia.

 

It makes sense to (cheaply) extend the 488 life cycle with basically another face lift *if*;

- you are launching a new high end and far more expensive mid-engine car (aka the “big brother”)

- that launch (and others) preclude you from having resources to update the entry level mid-engine sports car line (the 488) for a couple of years.

The only other choice would be to sell 488GTB and/or Pista for another two years. I doubt ferrari thinks that a good idea in this competitive marketplace for a host of reasons (488GTB will be a bit long in the tooth, and they can’t make Pistas for 4 years without losing a lot of key customer goodwill that was predicated on their Pista purchase being a somewhat limited run).

So, thinking about it...it seems obvious with the information we now have, to do a face lift, life-extension of the 488 in an attempt to keep it competitive until you can introduce a whole new car in that segment.

To repeat, there are two big assumptions here; first the BB is happening soon, and second ferrari doesn’t have the resources to launch a full replacement for the 488 for another couple of years. Fwiw, I find those two assumptions to be highly possible.