You really think Ferrari is hurting for cash? I truly believe the Pista is the 488 "Facelift", it's competitive and you can get a poverty spec version in the mid $300K, which would still include Shields, forged rims, CF Wheel, CF Seats, CF trim and others. They can keep production rolling for another year and deliver the true 488 replacement in 2020, wouldn't hurt exclusivity one bit with a total production run of 1.5 years, just like the Speciale. Ferrari hurting for cash? Don't be silly!
Where did I say that? I not only didn't say it, I didn't allude to that (you are grossly misreading my use of the word "resources" if you think that only means cash). In fact, I didn't mean access to cash at all. Something tells me you haven't any experience running large publicly traded companies (nor even observing them perhaps) if you missed the many reasons why companies don't typically cram a bunch of products into a short launch timeframe. Just because a company has the cash to afford to pay the bills for multiple product launches at once (or in a short/compressed timeframe) doesn't mean they will. For many reasons. Marketing capacity and focus on message for one. Finding enough engineering talent (or not wanting to hire that many or not wanting to outsource more), QC people, etc, etc. Inability of third-party vendors/partners to flex with them. And, most of all, because of prudent demands of shareholders who don't want huge swings in R&D costs (for practical reasons and earnings requirements). Also, you seem to make a couple of assumptions yourself...that making more Pista's won't be an issue (its going to have a 1.5 year product cycle as it is, extending to "when the all new 488 replacement is ready" (with its new platform, new hybrid power, etc) would mean a lot more than 1.5 years of Pista. Also, there has been a lot of push-back on Pista pricing. Not having a lower cost model ala 488GTB is a clear hole in the Ferrari line-up. They will want to fill that as soon as they can. Look, I don't know why you felt you had to ridicule my post. Neither of us knows what they are doing. At least my post was taking a reasoned and somewhat logical approach to the question, and I certainly didn't ridicule anyone else's pov. Perhaps you have a history of flawed thinking in your posts (or lack of thinking) and a penchant for quickly attacking others? I wonder where I got that idea Finally, fwiw, I don't think that doing another face lift on the 458/488 platform is a great idea. In fact, I've discussed the merits of not doing that in other treads. This thread is discussing the topic of "if they have chosen to do the face lift", why and what are the ramifications. Thus my attempt to outline one set of reasons why Ferrari would do it.
The BB it's not a replacement, but a brand new product added to current products. This means a rethink of production lines and supply chains (especially for chassis and bodies, with regards to OMR and Scaglietti). So it's not just a question of money, but it also involves production times and physical space for manufacturing and assembly.
For those critical of the "facelift" think about the 911 - the master of doing very little and I mean VERY little and calling it a new model. Porsches interior has never "really" changed and its ergonomics and tech UI are from the 90's. Then theirs McLaren the who take "putting lipstick on the pig (an IT industry term) to a new level i.e. use the same CF tub, engine gearbox etc pretty much since inception. McLaren however have really taken UI and cabin interior to a new level which is great however when you don't need to spend capex on all the other bits as they are being re-used it is an easier ask. For a company with 5+ (and soon to be 6+) different product categories and who is vertically integrated to the level Ferrari is I wonder why how they do it firstly and secondly the capital needed is huge. You want bespoke unique products - pay up
Well said after all Ferrari are a small manufacturer with limited resource and a lot on their plate So far as to what they have in the pipeline I must commend
Co-sign on this. As great as McLarens are, one (if not the only) reason they can offer a full carbon fiber tub/monocoque at such competitive prices vis-a-vis their competitors (Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, etc.) is because they're essentially a chassis builder who can focus almost exclusively on aero and suspension dynamics because all of their cars from the 570 to the 720 to their halo/hypercars like the Senna and Speedtail all use an off-the-shelf Ricardo engine. Granted, each iteration of the engine is tuned differently (with the Speedtail having a hybrid setup), but at the end of the day it's essentially one powerplant that McLaren never had to sink full R&D costs to develop or bring to market. (hat tip, thank you Nissan). Maybe their new partnership with BMW will change that, and hopefully it does. More and better competition is better for all of us (i.e., the consumers)
You cannot imagine the difficulties even the really large manufacturers are having with development resource. It is unprecedented in the last 50 years and maybe ever. Ferrari are a minnow in world terms, development resource is a key item to manage - if they lose quality in terms of product development they are sunk.
To be fair, that's not true. Ricardo didn't just have a bunch of engine designs and you show up and pick one. The engine is practically clean sheet when used on McLarens. It is true that they use a version of it in all their products, but nothing wrong with that. Ferrari shares engines across their product lines as well. It's not a coincidence that so many engine appear to be the same capacity. The F154 is used in in the Portofino, 488, Lusso, and California T.. "McLaren bought the rights to the Tom Walkinshaw Racing developed engine, itself based on the Nissan VRH engine architecture,[2] which was designed for the IRL Indycar championship but never raced. However, other than the 93 mm bore, little of that engine remains in the M838T.[3] In only 18 months, Ricardo went from a clean sheet of paper to a running prototype.[4]"
Ferrari shouldn't do what Lamborghini does. The new Huracan Evo is barely a facelift. You can hardly spot the difference.
Anyone watching Chris Harris' review of 488 Pista should note the clues that our loved (or not) narrative voice left for us about ... the 488 facelift. His commentary about dated interior of 488Pista... - Ferrari of course "let" him criticise Pista in that department, because they have new interior design for the 488 facelift. And expect nothing else, frankly speaking - just read (between) CH's words. Because what we read next from his commentary is sth like 'Cars have too much power to enjoy, to put it on the road ...'. Well, it means that Ferrari thinks seriously about their customers' safety and enjoyment and will give us a single "1CV" engine power-up in the 488 facelift car. (Yeah, that's not funny at all, at all.) Also this comment makes tyre makers happy, that they will not have to bother with developing newer, better tyres. (Why bother?) Also please note his note about Ferrari turbo engines obliterating NA engines in every aspect. (He never really liked the sound of 458 Italia etc. so no wonder he can claim that. Too many hours behind mclaren wheel, I think ) And his words mean that Ferrari want to milk their customers once again, selling for 2 more years "the last 'pure' twin-turbo V8 model" like hot cakes. PS. I'm in a cynical mood. Somehow.
How am I gonna wait for another 2 more months? Ferr9000 please tell us more about the FL! It burns us! It burns us! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Anyone ;-)? Damn, I was expecting some spy shots of 488 F-L ... But that "thing" here looks ... Oh my god!
I'm waiting for him to share the date of the online reveal (somewhen in late February) so at least I know which day I'll be looking forward to.
Do you guys think there were any spy shots of the FL on the forum? Many Ferrari test mules but which one's the FL?
Spy shots of the interior? Nothing much seems to change on the 488 facelift - read Chris Harris' review . The mules are for new models/testing new parts. The facelift doesn't require a separate mule. But a camouflaged 'ready-to-go' FL will be nice to spot.
Thanks (and thanks, as always, ferr9000) but further proof that this thread is superfluous and all discussion of FL, BB and LB should be in the "488 Replacement" thread. At least for the time being and until one of these is released. Just my 2 cents ;-)
You're welcome, but thanks to that second one thread, some people are being misled what is what, and what model is to be expected at 2019 Geneva Motor Show.(Not to mention the "IBM computers" debate in that thread). In just two months the truth will become apparent Some say that that in Geneva we'll see just a facelift of the 488GTB, and the real 488 replacement would be expected in 2020. BB & LB would be the start of new line-up of ferraris. Just like many of us, I'd like to know if 488 will get a facelift or an expedited hybrid replacement.
IMHO, they won't bother with changing door panels for different mirror attachment if it is gonna be just a facelift model of 488GTB. And so the roofline. Probably they will leave 458 Italia legacy when the proper replacement model comes. So far, the spy shots from Fiorano circuit caught only hybrids tested, not the facelift. ... Or Ferrari is preparing a surprise for us.
Honestly, with all the infos provided so far, it's already pretty easy. Just missing a few technical bits and your sketches!
