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F355 Market

Discussion in '348/355' started by Robb, May 19, 2015.

  1. taz355

    taz355 F1 Rookie
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Grant
    Would have brought more money likely because Steve, Dave and I would have been in a bidders war potentially.
     
  2. f355930

    f355930 Rookie

    Mar 23, 2018
    11
    The correction fountain is open for overvalued asset's. I should be able to find a clean F355-550 15% less current market Mid-19.
    Definitely not buying dealer stories of "Sold" after baiting with low price then flip-flopping.

    Buyers market, will check back mid 19.
     
  3. sec16518

    sec16518 Rookie
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    May 27, 2018
    15
    "Over-valued"? That is the dumbest thing I have read today........You sound like value investors not buying AMZN the last 15 years.

    Maybe if we have a major economic recession, but that exception aside the value of these cars will only go up. It may be minimal over certain periods, but time is on the seller's side.

    While you wait 9 months, someone else will be enjoying ownership and driving one of these cars.
     
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  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Karting

    Jul 28, 2018
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    nj
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    Turner Luce
    #3154 Ferrarium, Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    At 127 pages it seems the market strength to discuss 355 market strength is strong.
    Seems overall the 348 and 355 market values are better than it was 10 years ago.
    Trajectory is good until economy dips hard again I suppose.
     
  5. f355930

    f355930 Rookie

    Mar 23, 2018
    11
    Stock market is not the economy and the dollar has lost value if we consider fiat valuation and inflation. I won’t mention economic reset as long as bankers don’t call month long holiday. Robert Schiller predicts 2019 decline housing. Price of goods-food up 15% last few years and now trade wars. Wages for middle class up 1-3% in 10 years.

    Amzn was $27 many years back but took a super long time to reach its current price and is the exception @272x PE for electronics valuation. Smart money is in Otc Markets where 10 bagger are predictably common if you DD is solid and that 10-20 bagger takes only a months time, happens to several stocks per year. I won’t mention parabolic runs of 20000% over 3 months but you get the point.

    F355 Flippers had a good run, but most were bought around $45-75k from private parties and relisted and some sold for $80-90k or testing BAT auctions. 550’s same case hyper prices last major service 5-7 years hardly moving. Testarossa market same. Of course exceptional one owner cars with polished history move but most the aforementioned are multiple owners with service gaps.

    10+ years 127 pages f355 a 25% upswing at its peak now. Porsche air cooled 911’s cooling 30% less supply as coupes were exported to Europe since they prefer US cars being fully loaded, garage queens etc.

    I’m fortunate and 30 years from such a thing called retirement. A 6-9 month wait is hardly time lost. I sure in hell will find the right 355-550 just refuse to pay hyper prices given future market.

    Gltu
     
  6. sec16518

    sec16518 Rookie
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    May 27, 2018
    15
    Life is short....6-9 months is not a period of time to waste either just to save a few bucks.

    I am marking this in my google calendar for 6/2019.......lol.
     
  7. XENU

    XENU F1 Rookie
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    What are you looking for in a 355 and what kind of price do you think is fair at this time?
    I am curious because I may be selling my cherry 1998 355 GTS F1 and I have heard a lot of opinions.
     
  8. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    May 1, 2004
    1,633
    Golden, Colorado
    +1, if one needs to save $5,000 to be able to afford a Ferrari then maybe they should not own that model. These cars can swallow $5,000-$10,000 in maintenance unexpectedly at any time. I have had mine 12 years and I am glad I did not wait a year to get it, some of the early memories and friends that I made in the local Ferrari club were certainly worth the small difference in price waiting a year would make. If the financial markets tank and values go down, will one atill feel like they should be spending money on a toy at that time or should they focus on rebuilding their net worth? There is no perfect time, only time to buy a Ferrari.
     
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  9. f355930

    f355930 Rookie

    Mar 23, 2018
    11
    1995 Berlinetta manual, Carbon seats look great, may consider spider or gts, low mileage under 25K. Prefer red or black with tan interior. Regarding your F1, Ferrari of WA has lowered their 98 F1 17K $75k to $69K, listed over 6 months.

    Price depends on qualifiers & proper service i.e..valve guides if needed, manifolds+ECU..etc. If I was mechanical expert those $45-50K real tempting. I imagine somewhere in the $60's is fair, missed two this year in that range.

    thanks
     
  10. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Nov 23, 2012
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    Nearly 6 years ago I bought my first - 98 F1 GTS, sub 10K miles, fresh major and new tires for $68K. Those days are long gone.
     
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  11. XENU

    XENU F1 Rookie
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    It sounds like have invested some time into research on the 355 market. There are owners here that have
    an immeasurable amount of knowledge that I highly suggest you try to absorb. Ownership history and maintenance are very important on the 355. A good deal on a 355 can turn bad very quickly with your first service. These cars are great, I have owned one for 20 years myself, but 355 ownership can be like having a crazy hot stripper girlfriend. It is all good until something goes bad. Certain parts are also getting tough to find. It appears that you are putting a little too much emphasis on price above other factors. A Ferrari 355 is not an investment or a commodity.

    My best advice I can give you is to get to know some of the 355 owners on FerrariChat and when the time comes for you to make a purchase you will be much more informed with what you are getting into. If you are lucky you may find a car with a known history here. Good luck and hopefully you will find an excellent 355!!!:cool:
     
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  12. Jon Von Bon

    Jon Von Bon Formula 3
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    I agree with everything you said EXCEPT, price perception. With all due respect and not getting anyone’s panties twisted but I think that if you really want to sell your 355 today even one that’s been driven but cotton swab cared for you could expect MAX 65-68K. Anything less is $40-50K

    A unicorn between $75-85K MAX. (And be prepared to sit on it) In these times.

    As special as these cars are, no one with investment money is investing in this car (they are in the stock market). The market to begin with is niche. There are too many other cheaper/newer/faster options.

    Keeping in mind that We are in a car climate where you can buy a used Maybach which retailed for $400K for $35K.

    Having said all that, I am a 355 nut bar and even though my AMG will smoke my 355s I just love the 355 and they are not forsale for any price , (well maybe a billion dollars, [firm]).
     
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  13. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
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    I always find it funny when those who think they can predict the world economy are worried about a $5k swing one way or the other. If you’re that good enjoy your car and you’ll make it up somewhere else.
     
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  14. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Rookie
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    Have to disagree on all counts, well except for the last sentence :D

    Unicorn 75-85k max? Where are the 40k cars?

    Faster/newer means nothing. 993 c2s would be destroyed by an F355 and 25-35k mileage examples are all well above 100k ask.
     
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  15. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Right. The 40K cars don't exist (GTB OR GTS).
     
  16. chrisj951

    chrisj951 Rookie
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    Feb 18, 2015
    41
    Metro Atlanta
    So good value is $59k and add $30k more for a manual. Seems right to me. I think 6 speed berlinetta’s will be most valuable in the long run.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  17. XENU

    XENU F1 Rookie
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    I think you quoted my post in error.
     
  18. Jon Von Bon

    Jon Von Bon Formula 3
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    #3169 Jon Von Bon, Oct 13, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
    Jim,

    What’s to disagree about?

    Most people with liquidity have abandoned the collector car market for equities, real estate and business ventures as the economic environment has changed.. just take a look at the entire overall value estimates, recent sale prices and Monterey. All of it, seriously down. If anyone buys a (non bluechip ferrari) as an investment I question that persons thinking.

    As far as Porsche goes, I don’t think anyone considers a 993 C2 ever a fast car. You need at the very least a C4 and or of course the turbo.

    As much as it pains me to say this:

    Many 430s are on the table in the 80K range.
    The golf GTI is faster
    Heck The new Toyota Camry would give the 355 a run
    A new mustang with a blower out of the box is about $40k up here and can push over 600hp with a cursory tune.
    Some of the Honda commuter cars are pretty quick

    355s (yes GTBs and GTSs too) have been forsale in non salvage condition over the entire span of my ownership which is over ( 10 years ) even in within the peak period in the 40s. High mileage/need referb etc... etc... sometimes it’s just the odd guy that needs the dough. And those don’t sit around long.
    If you’ve been watching the market long enough, you will even see cars that come up forsale, sit for a while, then somehow end up on copart . Often you see cars resurface from the same seller years later etc... You may also notice that spring and fall is when there is an increase in the salvage cars being offered (lottsa the power anda not so mucha traction you know?).
    Of course many have traded hands at well over $100K marker also. As you have said, condition, condition, condition. But if the car is priced right, it will sell. If it’s priced in the dreamland of misinformation than the seller (likely a reader of this thread) is not properly armed with the right decision making tools from our “ experts “ here as for when to sell, and that’s not right. There are many different kinds of owners of the 355 and if the “experts” around here are going to give their opinions with authority than you may as well be candid and objectively honest to maintain your credibility.

    If we are updating the current state of the market in this thread we may as well have an honest discussion or we can just change the title to “355 market, a feel good story”

    I am so happy that Robb made this thread so that market talk doesn’t contaminate every single other thread like it used too.


    Jim, BTW I love what you have done with your 355. With all of the lightened parts it’s probably a rocket.
     
  19. Jon Von Bon

    Jon Von Bon Formula 3
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    Yes X, you are right, I somehow merged your post and the guy you quoted.
     
  20. Robb

    Robb F1 Veteran
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    Some will disagree...

    Ferrari market is pretty slow right now. All car markets are pretty slow right now. Stock market is taking a hit this week and with other factors in play, people may decide to park some money in a car to play for a bit - until they go back to the stock market. Don't forget that Italy is about to start a meltdown on the world money market with their political spending and debt repayment habits.

    New cars will be going up in price because of the new tarrifs. So don't expect to buy that new bimmer or Porsche on the cheap. Some will definitely consider a classic car experience for less money - and say screw you to the tarrifs and the big auto makers with their 5k satnav's.

    As usual, there aren't that many F355 Berlinetta or GTS for sale in the US. Mostly spiders. If you want a spider, there are many, very nice low mile cars to choose from at fairly low prices. The non spider's that are still out there, people have seen and kind of said - ehhh, I am waiting for a different color combo, better condition, better records, lower miles, or yes - better deal. But those deals may never come because, for the money, there aren't that many interesting options below 65k anyway. What else is really fun with the noise, involvement, and very unique look and ownership experience? Right - not much. People are just opting for newer, faster cars for more creature comforts or speed - but less involvement. I added a 2009 Aston for comfort, and room without giving up looks, timelessness, or exclusivity. So even I did not go buy a brand new car given all the options. Most of the options out there are pretty boring. And most of the classic options are also boring - or uncomfortable.

    But with all timeless Ferrari's, they depreciate til that 20-25 year mark and then go up. And you really don't count the 2+2 in that equation. Most have done exactly that.

    I just paid off the garage improvements so am looking forward to putting another car in the mix. I'm definitely not trying to market-time it.

    There are a couple nice cars out there that are fairly priced. But since this could be our 4th F355 to pick up, I'm really being picky.

    2019 and we can start importing 1994 models... Then there will start to be more options. The problem is most owners are really happy with their F355 and aren't selling.

    Just sayin.

    Robb
     
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  21. Jon Von Bon

    Jon Von Bon Formula 3
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    I can’t wait to see your new one Robb. Blue 355s are jaw droppingly georgeous.

    Understand, I am not talking down the market and I have a couple of salvage cars (that run awesome) in my toy box as well as a few probably best ofs. It’s incredible that I could drive my cars for many years and in the unlikely event that I would sell, I would at the very least break even and probably make a few bucks. There aren’t too many car brands that you can do that with. And IMO there isn’t a brand that provides the visceral raw enjoyment on so many levels.
    Buy what you love, drive the crap out of it, take care of it, and be happy.
    IMO and FWIW if you are looking here is where I think the current market is as reflected in my last post.

    Top of the line jewel gtb gts sub 10K car $80-$100 (or less)*
    Nice car low miles, great condition $60-$75. (or less)*
    Drivers high miles good condition. $50-$60. (or less)*
    Salvage/stories cars. $35-$49. (or less)*

    * is if your looking I think in this time your negotiating position is better.
     
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  22. Zbaroom

    Zbaroom Rookie

    May 27, 2012
    48
    Dubai
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    Zaini
    Just another perspective. In Dubai, these cars are rare and the ones for sale are in the range of $95 and $110. Berlinettas are fetching more than spiders. I think a well maintained 355 (regardless of the milage) is well worth it. It is simply the most fun car to drive. I am thinking of listing mine for $90K to see what happen.
     
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  23. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

    Sep 27, 2002
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    Sheehan...is that you?
     
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  24. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Rookie
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    Jeff,

    I suppose I just have a different perspective. I view my cars as something I enjoy, not once have I thought about selling to invest in equities/real estate/etc because I don't view it as an investment. Admittedly I'm not good with money so I'm sure having that attitude is probably not good in the long run but I can't help but think there are others who want a car just because they want it, investment potential aside.

    Golf GTI faster than 430? Camry giving a 355 a run? I'm confused, these cars aren't even close but to touch on that point again, if it was just speed per dollar we're talking about I think everyone would just have a turbo LS swapped Chevette. :D

    As for an honest discussion, I agree with your revised numbers for the most part-

    "Top of the line jewel gtb gts sub 10K car $80-$100 (or less)*
    Nice car low miles, great condition $60-$75. (or less)*
    Drivers high miles good condition. $50-$60. (or less)*
    Salvage/stories cars. $35-$49. (or less)*"

    Although I think a top of the line jewel gtb/gts sub 10k car could easily bring well above 100k

    Also fwiw, the link Turner posted to sold vehicles on ebay, the yellow GTB is rebuilt title and sold for 54.5k and the red 95 at $75k / 35k miles needs a good bit of freshening that would push it well into your top of the line jewel numbers.

    And thanks!, wouldn't say it's a rocket but don't get blown off the road by too many golfs and camrys :)
     
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