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F355 Market

Discussion in '348/355' started by Robb, May 19, 2015.

  1. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    It's pretty obvious what was damaged from the repair order. Rear panel replaced. Left tail lights replaced, bumper replaced. Bumper heat shield replaced. Muffler replaced. Left quarter repaired, rear deck repaired. Rocker panels, fender liners, rear quarter glass and rear glass removed, all to facilitate painting. Frame pulled. Full alignment. Entire rear end of car, including roof, refinished. Reads like it was repaired correctly.
     
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  3. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    What I have found is that if you are buying from the owner of record when damage occurs, you get plenty of documentation....but every time a car changes hands, there is less known. And compounding that is used car dealers don't want details so they can make up whatever story suits them to make more $$$.
     
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  4. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
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    JohnK laid it out very well above and if you then take into consideration the super inflated cost of several new Ferrari parts like the bumper cover the repair looks to be in line with the damage and reasonable. Also, as was pointed out above, it does appear the repair shop was thorough in bringing that car back to as new condition as possible. It also appears the insurance was one of the collector policies because I can't imagine a normal company adjuster signing off on some of those things for a car 20 years old. I know that I would not have a problem owning that car but we all have our conditions of ownership and that is fine. I hope the seller gets a fair price based on the current market.
     
  5. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    “Frame pulled. Full alignment.”

    CarFax: No structural damage.

    Thank you very much.


    Personally, I wouldn’t buy a car that had frame damage. If I did, at the minimum, I would need to see pics of the frame damage before and after. The seller has not provided this.
     
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  6. Targatime

    Targatime Formula Junior
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    Exactly. Total mystery how bad the damage was. And an own-goal that the seller doesn't have a few pics to illuminate the situation.
     
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  8. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    It's not like there's three of these in existence. There are plenty and they seem to come on bat at the rate of about twice a month depending on the specific model spider GTS etc. Too easy to wait to find one that's not damaged. That's my opinion at least especially since at some point you're going to sell it, and the issue will resurface.


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  9. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    #6757 johnk..., Jul 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
    Doesn't necessarily mean there was structural damage. Any unibody vehicle involved in accident where there is a possibility of such damage would be placed on a frame machine and all the alignment points checked by a good shop.

    I spun my '89 3 series in the snow and the left front lightly banged against a Jersey barrier. Bend the fender and front valance. When it was repaired the first thing done was to put it on a frame machine to check the alignment. It was fine, but the invoice showed "pull frame".

    Looking at the damage pictures of this 355 I doubt there would be any significant, if any at all, distortion of the unibody.

    Would I buy it? Not without having it certified straight, and even then, with suitable price adjustment.

    But again this make my point about the 355 being collector status. If this was a 288 GTO or an F40 how much difference would it make? 250 GTO?

    May be an opportunity for someone to get a nice car at a reduced price.
     
  10. 911NBK

    911NBK Karting

    Jan 2, 2021
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    This is exactly right.

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  11. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    And that’s where the pics of frame come in (bumper and grille off), which the seller has not provided. “Reduced price” sounds about right.
     
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  13. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    I don't disagree with you in any way. Pictures with the rear bumper and back panel off would be helpful. But still, I don't see the rear sub panel, part 19, listed on the repair bill, or any parts associated with the engine carriage or quarter panel support. So, not that it means there can't be damage, but it just seems some of those parts would be damaged/replaced before the main engine carriage/suspension parts and unibody would be damaged. Even if they were, you could not conclude as to whether the unibody/engine carriage was damaged without seeing report from the frame machine.

    All that can really be said is that the car was damaged and appears to have been correctly repaired and it now has a scar on the Carfax forever. :( That scar would be more of an issue to me with regard to what the car is worth. But that's just my feelings. For sure it will hurt the price. I'm thinking $60k. :D

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  14. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    You fellas are some picky SOB’s

    So many cars are damaged so often. You can walk up and tell good work from bad work pretty quickly. I fixed a 458 last month. $27k, most was parts - labor was a small part of it.

    But as supply dwindles, you buy what you can find or is available at your price. But buying for resale before even owning the car seems silly.

    So many 50’s and 60’s Ferrari’s are 7 and 8 figures, and most have multiple repaints, damage history, poorly repaired and still pulling silly money!

    The 80’s and 90’s buyer still expects a sea of Virgins. Shiiiiiit these things have done a trick or two. Give them a break, enjoy the ride regardless.


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  15. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    #19 ?

    You mean this? Part no. 64246600

    ;)





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  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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  17. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    And frankly, I couldn't figure how that part would not have been damaged. :)
     
  18. 911NBK

    911NBK Karting

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  19. Ferrari Fanatic

    Ferrari Fanatic Formula 3

    Apr 2, 2003
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    It’s fun to chit chat and shoot the $hitt about 355’s.

    I agree with some others and can’t wrap my mind around paying full price for a car that may have had frame damage.

    Don’t we all agree that the first rule is, don’t pay full price on any serious unknown, so you have some margin built in, in case the **** hits fan.

    355’s are not that rare (yet). Wouldn’t it be prudent to build in a margin or just find a different 355 to buy ?
     
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  20. Targatime

    Targatime Formula Junior
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    Doesn't look bad at all. How was that a $53K (CAD) repair?
     
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  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    #6768 johnk..., Jul 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
    Agreed. The pictures from 911nbk are not indicative of frame damage. Of course, you never know, hence mount it on a frame machine. As for the 53k, start with 24k + in parts and 6k in taxes. But for sure, 18k in labor seems a bit high and they are charging about $230/hr. There is a high end shop near me that specialized in Mec, BMW and Porsche that charges $130 US/hr and an independent shop that does better work that charges $60US/hr. $230 CA is a ripoff.
     
  22. 911NBK

    911NBK Karting

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    Because it's a scam, the body shops and adjusters are artificially inflating repair bills for work they never do. The guy who gets screwed is the owner trying to sell the car after the car is repaired.

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  23. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    Isn’t #19 the frame?

    So bodyshop bills insurance for buying the frame, but decides to beat it out instead :). That frame will affect fitment on the rear bumper. I do see some discrepancies with the fitment, but that could also be due to installation. I see more gap on the passenger side vs driver’s side.


    This is a also 98 car, which should have a slotted rear bumper. I noticed the “new” rear bumper did not have slots where the lower black accents are. Early 95 cars came with non-slotted bumpers (both of my cars have this bumper). I believe this bumper is discontinued (you can’t buy it new). Chances are, the body shop billed the insurance $7k for a new 98 rear bumper and found a used early 95 rear bumper instead :). Probably did the same with the exhaust. Makes you wonder what parts are new, but actually used. They also billed $2k to fix an exhaust leak. Accident tweaked exhaust fitment?
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  24. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    Not sure how Canada works, but 355 owner chose the bodyshop?
     
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  25. 911NBK

    911NBK Karting

    Jan 2, 2021
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    It might be different province to province. I'm in Quebec, we choose, but insurance has to approve. I think it's same in ontario, and in this 355s case it went to ferrari of Ontario for repair, and if things haven't changed it's the only officially approved body shop for repair by ferrari in Canada.

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  26. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Not sure but I wouldn't think so. Not any more than a quarter, door or fender anyway.

    Or is the entire body a frame when it's unibody and not body on frame?
     
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  27. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    Unibody car. The engine mounts to the sub frame which you remove for majors. “Frame” is misleading term. Unibody structural alignment would be the proper terminology. That is the rear body panel.

    I can 100% say Ferrari builds a terrible car from a structural finish out and quality perspective. KIA has better structural weld and unibody structure design than Ferrari. You pull the cars down to the bare minimum and look at how they are built and it is not nearly that of most major car companies. There design philosophy is that of a boutique car company. There technology is in the engine.

    What no other car company has is the “soul” built into each car. You can “feel” it when you work on them. They build them light, minimalist and for one purpose, to go fast while handling the twisters. They don’t take a collision well, but they drive like no other car.


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  28. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Yes, of course unibody but what then is defined as "frame" damage if so.

    I think structural is rockers, rear subframe, floors, more so than external panels but if it's unibody everything that's welded on could be considered structural?

    If so it would seem like almost any collision would be considered frame damage.

    Very vague IMO, so just continues to fall under the category of judging each car on it's own merit. If there is some questionable history, best case is there are photos you can observe to arrive at your own conclusion.
     

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