Hello to all, A couple of week a go I decided to take my 97 Spider out for my usual run when tragedy struck and the rear end came out from me and the car went of the road into a telephone pole. Thankfully both me and my passenger are alright. The car not so much. Car Facts: 1997 F355 Spider Nero and black 12,300 miles All major services done with valve guides replaced 1.5 years ago I just got the call that my insurance company AMIG, and they stated they want to total it out. Unfortunately, I had only an agreed value of $70k on the car which, given the latest prices, is going to be a challenge to find a similar one. The policy came with a 2% by quarter inflation protection coverage but my policy renewed 8 days before the accident so they said they don't owe me any more than the agreed value. Also, I asked if if all the work ($20k) I had done during the last two years could be taken into account. The answer on all account is that they only want to pay the "Agreed Value" and that they are going to send out the paper work for me to release the car them. So my questions are: 1. Should I try to pursue trying to get compensation for all the work done that fell within my coverage dates? 2. Should I be concerned about releasing the car to them and then having something go wrong where they do not want to pay out on at least the agreed value? 3. Should I get a lawyer to review the paperwork and policy? If so, can any one recommend someone in Texas? Any feed would be appreciated.
Sadly, poop occurs. When a tree fell on my 348, the ins co totaled it out. I bought it back from them ($7k!!!!) and had the body work done for much less than their repair estimate. Yes, I now have a salvage title, but I don't care. Yours may be too far gone, but I'd strongly consider parting it out if so, assuming you have the skills. Arguing with the insurance company, with whom you agreed to $70k already, will just cause heartache and delays in moving forward. Or maybe I'll buy the carcass from you!
By definition "Agreed Value" is that you declared a maximum amount, right ? Knowing how insurance companies work, I think you will have a uphill battle getting over your Agreed Value. I think your best play is to ask the Insurance Adjuster credit you for your Sales Tax, so that will get you an extra 8.25% depending on where you live.
I am no expert on this, but just opinion from what you wrote, I'm not sure how they would be on the hook to pay more than the agreed value. It stinks with a car like a Ferrari that is costly to maintain- the real world difference in value of a 355 with up to the minute maintenance and in top notch shape vs. one that is ratty and due for a major service can easily be $10-20K plus, but in this case you agreed to a certain value that your insurance premium/contract took into account when quoting the premium. I guess someone could have a 355 that hadn't had a major service in 10 years have an agreed value of $x, then the next year get the major service done and get their policy adjusted for agreed value of $x + thousands, and of course their premium would increase to reflect the increased agreed value amount, but short of this I don't see how you will get anything over the $70K since you didn't do that. By the way, if something similar to this happened to me I'd also be short by thousands, as I put a lot of money into making my car "set up right" for me and didn't bother to increase my agreed value based on that, so it's likely a common thing. I'm sorry to hear about your accident by the way- the important thing is you and the passenger were OK. The car can be replaced...
Sorry for you loss. However, if you have an agreed value policy they are obligated to pay you $70k if the car is a total loss. I don't see any need for getting a lawyer involved. Similarly, since it is an agreed value policy they are not obligated to pay you any more than $70k, and again, I don't think you would be successful in obtaining any additional. After all, it's a contact which both parties signed off on. You might do better by trying to insist that they pay for the car to be repaired. I would not be surprised if they want to total it because it is in their best financial interest. By totaling it they would pay out $70k less the salvage value. For argument, assume salvage value of $35k. So they would be out a net of $35k by totaling it. If repaired it could cost them $40k plus, perhaps something for diminished value. Thus their payout would be greater so they prefer to total the car. I don't want to sound negative, but I don't think agreed value policies are the way to go unless a car is a truly rare collector car. You may have been better off with an ordinary policy which would have paid you current market value and typically has a arbitration process if you do not agree on current market value.
Sorry to here Unfortunately what you put in would be considered normal maintenance. If you were to improve the car in the last 30 days then you may get a few % towards that. However you have a stated value policy, any improvements need to be added to the policy. Like plugzit did, buy back and part out. I'm sure one of us here in SoCal will take the car off your hands if you so decide Good luck
sorry about this situation.. must be very tough.. unfortunately I dont know enough to offer relevant feedback.. but this has brought to light.. that we or at least myself.. should have the insurance value on our cars adjusted to reflect current market values.. when I bought my 97 GTB.. i insured it for what I paid which was a bargain price.. now its worth a good amount more.. so first thing in spring.. I will have the insurance adjusted..
Agree with everything stated above. One positive (if it's a positive??) is that your car WAS totaled. What if they came back and said they could fix it? You have your car, but now it has a story.
I disagree with this. Generally speaking, the collector car insurance policies are able to give better coverage for less money because the pool of cars being insured are typically garaged cars that are not: daily drivers, taken to bad areas, driven many miles/year. They are cars that are almost always driven in ideal conditions (not bad weather, heavy traffic, etc)- so statistically they likely have far fewer accidents/break-ins/theft per mile driven, or year etc. The agreed value obviously has to be reasonable (can't try to claim a 355 is worth $10 million as agreed value), and is then factored into the quote. My guess is an "ordinary" policy would look at the Blue Book value of the car (not the "true current market value") and offer something very low, say $30,000 or something far below the true market on these cars. You would then spend 12+ months negotiating/in arbitration for another few thousand, maybe $10K tops...you'd waste a year and still come out behind vs agreed value. I had an arbitration with an insurance company a while back and it took over a year to settle. They move SLOW (on purpose I'm sure ) In short, the two reasons I moved to collector car insurance for my collector cars is the lower cost and BETTER coverage.
You can increase your agreed value for a higher premium of course, or just "self insure" the difference (i.e. hope the car doesn't get totaled and bank the savings) Kind of the same decision as to when to take collision off your daily driver- our newer cars have full collision (may even be required if financing the car?), my 16 year old daily driver doesn't. By the way, you can probably call your insurance company anytime to adjust the agreed value and they would simply adjust the premium? Sort of like if you pay an annual premium and then sell a car mid-year-they credit back the premium "not used". If you are worried about it you probably don't need to wait until the spring. Maybe I should have become an insurance salesman- ha!
I have yet to find a CC insurer that was even close to the rates I pay for my cars. Hagerty just quoted my 355 with $90k value, driven 1500 miles/yr at $2236/yr for their basic policy with 250000/500000 liability. Most of that is comp and collision. And that's with clean driving record and over 30 years old. That's about 5 times what I'm paying. If I change the value to $40k it's still over $1000/yr. Do you really think that regular insurance companies don't know that Ferraris are usually stored in garages, driven in ideal conditions and don't they ask you how many miles you drive per year? One thing you can be sure of with an insurance company is that when they write a policy they know the risk. Everyone should do as the feel best, but if you have an agreed value policy make sure you are ok with the set value. Again, sorry for the OP's loss. Oh, I see. Your from NJ. That explains it.
My regular insurer (state farm), that I've been with for over 20 years, that I have my other vehicles and home insured with would not even add my Ferraris to my plan. They don't want to cover them. I ended up with American modern insurance with agreed values and zero deductible. I pay about $900 a year total for both the 348 and 355.
John k- maybe try leyland west? I have full coverage (250k/500k) and its I think about $600/year with either $70-75k agreed value on my 355. When I first switched to leyland back when I had a 911 as the toy car it was much less money than keeping it as an extra car on our daily driver policy - the insurance company was well aware of it being an extra car but couldn't match the policy of a dedicated pool of collector cars like leyland has (or haggerty or others). I don't know why you paying so much, but give me a break... I may be from New Jersey but just trying to help people save some money and get good coverage . At least call someone to get another quote- your rate seems high. Last year my 360 was about $1,100 with agreed value I think of $80-90k (since sold that car and got the 355)
I use heacock and condon skelly great prices Like others all the normal ins companies wont touch a ferrari in my county, I am in the ghetto
Sorry to hear about your accident. I would seriously think three times before you hand the keys to the insurer. Ask them how much $ you will receive if you keep the car. Getting it repaired correctly may be more economical than you think if you know the right people, plus the wreck may be worth more than the insurer thinks, especially since it is a well maintained example. This is assuming you don't mind the hassle reselling it or getting it fixed (if feasible) might give you.
I have used a variety of insurance companies over the years. I shop around about every 2 years. Always regular insurance and I have never had problems getting them to take my cars, 2 Ferraris and a Porsche Boxster. I've used Travelers, Liberty, talked to State Farm and All State and currently have Gieco. State farm and All State have always been higher than the others, but will give me a quote. State Farm actually sends me quotes every 6 months since I first talked to them. Gieco refers you to American Modern if you want collector car ins. My experience has been that Hagerty, Grundy and American Modern have all quoted significantly higher rates, even when the agreed value was representative of the current market values. Rates on my 355 and 308 are about $450/yr with the highest liability coverage they offer other, cheaper than what they want for the Boxster. All are pleasure only vehicles. When my insurance renews in a couple of months I give Geico a call and see what their deal with AM. Unfortunately, I've been through the evaluation process when one of my other cars was totaled (not chargeable to me) and while the car was not as high dollar the settlement was about 150% of the BB value at the time due to mileage, conditions and such. What the heck, for the OP's car NADA lists average value as $65k, high retail as $85k. I honestly believe that if he had a regular policy he could have recovered more than the $70k agreed value. I don't know how things work in NJ but up here the state has pretty strict guideline on how cars are evaluated for loss. They did this so that in cases such as mine, the courts would not be tied up in litigation between insurance companies when the party's at fault insurance would try to low ball the value and my insurance would try to recover as high as value as possible for me. Anyway, I photo document my cars every spring so I have clear evidence of mileage and condition.
They always want to total used Ferraris, as the retail parts cost has to be figured in, along with the risk of putting a repaired car back on the road. Your investments in upgrades and maintenence simply will disappear, they do not add value, past the "Stated Value". But, you swap the release, for the check. When you see the check, you sign the release. Glad you are okay!!
Just did an online quote from A M through Gieco. For my 308 and 355 with representative current market values they want $2122/yr for both with the same coverage I have on my current policy. Even if I cut the agreed values to something representative of average market value, which I don't think would be a problem getting in case of a total loss, the quote is close to $1500.
John K- at least try Leyland for a quote. Years ago I had State Farm, then moved to USAA for my cars (and all other insurance) since they were cheaper. I'm very happy with USAA, but I then realized that if I separated out the toy cars and covered them with Leyland who were cheaper than USAA. Ironically, I think Leyland policies go through American Home? Years ago, a deer jumped in front of my 911 (why couldn't it have happened to my daily driver!!)- Leyland was great to deal with- I got the repair done through the local Porsche body shop with all new OEM parts, and they asked no questions and allowed it to be repaired correctly. I've been very happy with them. I can't figure out with your clean record why your paying so much on your 355. I checked my paperwork- the only other discounts I may have is for AAA membership (and PCA even though I don't have a Porsche still am a member )- not sure if they gave discounts for both or only one but I have in my notes that I sent them in the AAA/PCA info...I doubt either added too much in savings... The only other thing I can think of is the collector car insurance (at least from Leyland) requires the car be primarily garaged and not a daily driver (they require one other car in the household for each member of the household with a license...) Do you have other daily drivers? Good luck with trying to save some $$- insurance is great when you need it, but painful writing out the premium checks...
I just realized something- are you paying >$2K for 2 cars? It looked like you said you were paying $2,200 for just the 355 in a prior post...
The original owner has the right to keep the car no matter what. It's his property until he signs it over. Aka signing the release. (of his ownership). He'll have the choice of giving them the car and receiving more money or keeping it and receiving less. Some call this buying it back from he insurance company but it's actually just retaining you ownership that you had in the first place. Once the insurance company has the car then yes it's a little harder for some random individual to buy it. They will send it to auction to recoup some of their loss. The two big action companies are Copart and IAAI. You have to register with them to bid pretty much like any auction youve ever been to. But, depending on what the sale document the car is going to have dictates what kind of sale it will be. Only clear title cars can be open to the public. Salvage cars can only be bad on by licienced dealers, dismantlers etc. so if you want to register and bid on salvage vehicles after the insurance co has taken them you have to be licienced. OR use a broker that is licienced to bid for you and pay them a small fee.
Let me clear things up. Hagerty wanted approx $2k+ for each car, $4k+ total. With same values and coverage A M wanted $2K+ for both, 1/2 of what Hagerty wanted. When I reduced values to close to NADA Average retail A M wanted $1500 for both cars. As I said, what I am actually paying with Gieco is about $450/yr for each car, $900 for both, full coverage for a full year. All my cars are limited mileage, pleasure only, even the pickup. I'm not unhappy with paying $1800/ yr for all 4 vehicles with the coverage I have. But I will give Leyland a call come April. I usually only carry full coverage on the Ferraris for 6 months but it's been so warm this year I still want to be able to drive the car as long as there is no carp on the roads.
OK- that makes more sense John- Just wanted to make sure a fellow f-chatter wasn't getting ripped off Very funny INTMD8 I know the thread went in a different direction once most people opined that the original poster would be hard-pressed to get more than $70K, but hopefully helpful to some to think about various types of insurance coverage you can get for your weekend toys!