F360: Air-filter covers NOT properly seated can trigger CEL? | FerrariChat

F360: Air-filter covers NOT properly seated can trigger CEL?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by DrG., Jun 14, 2014.

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  1. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Hi all. Yesterday I collected my 2003 f360 after a major service. This morning I took it out for a short drive, stopped somewhere for 5 miutes and after I drove off again, the CEL came on. When I got home, I had a look at the engine bay and discovered that the air-filter covers were not seated properly (you could see the air filters from outside) and the fastening screws were loose. Could this trigger the CEL? (air flow sensors reading out of specs??). Please advise...
     
  2. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    The fact that your air filters weren't installed properly says a lot about the quality of your "major service"; i.e. perhaps it was not very good. Who knows why you have the CEL light? I suspect not many of us have experience driving with one air filter installed incorrectly and I can't say if that would cause a CEL light. It could be caused by many things, but if you're like me, you hate to pay someone a lot of money and then have your car returned with problems. You at least should try to find out why.

    Refitting the air filter is simple. I assume you can do that yourself, right?

    I would immediately contact the shop, tell them circumstances, emphasize how disappointed you are with their sloppy workmanship, and schedule a FREE session to have them read any fault codes. Put a little pressure on them while you're at it, express your disappointment, and ask them what they're prepared to do in order to keep you as a customer (perhaps they'll agree to free labor on your next oil change, or something like that). Of course, depending on where you live, that may be something of a hollow threat. Be polite and don't lose your temper, but make sure you stand up for your rights as a paying customer.
     
  3. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Of course it says a lot about the quality of service...But being the ONLY Ferrari garage on the island (authorized) I don't have any other options. I paid 4220 euros for major service (belts included) and complete brake replacement (discs & pads all around). Both covers wer NOT seated properly, it took me 10 minutes to seat them and secure them....They are coming to collect my car Monday morning. As said before, there are no other options here: No other garage (independent)....
     
  4. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    #4 DrG., Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    #5 DrG., Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Tim1137

    Tim1137 Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2011
    817
    Providence - Boston
    Full Name:
    Tim
    The air filter boxes are located before the MAF sensors.

    This means, the total volume of air entering the engine, is still all being read by the MAF sensors, so no CEL would occur from this. You could take the boxes right out, and there would still be no CEL as long as the MAF sensors are still hooked up to the throttle bodies.
     
  7. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Thanks Tim. One other thing:
    When I was there about to collect the car, I noticed a "hissing noice" while the engine was running. The technician isolated the noice coming from where the 3 way union and the connecting hoses were (on the top of the oil tank). They said they had replaced that plastic T shaped joint and probaly the new one had narrower edges. When you pressed on the hoses with your fingers this noise stopped. They installed another plastic joint, and now the noise was a bit less but after pressing on the hoses(and cutting off the fumes or whatever circulates there) the noise did not stop....I don't know if this has anything to do with the CEL issue...
     
  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,459
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    Why not find out what the CEL is? If you get any OBD2 scanner and plug it in, it will give you the code. That will help tell us why it came on. See if you can find a scanner or someone who has one.

    As above, the loose air box should not give a code. Extra air being sucked into the engine by a loose fitting ahead of the MAFs just might.. Could be the simple vacuum leak. If that is what it is, there is no excuse.. none in my eyes.. that a hissing vacuum leak can't be diagnosed and fixed by a competent mechanic. Heck a monkey can do that.

    Not impressed with the sounds of that service.. ;)
     
  9. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Thanks for the reply. They are collecting my car on Monday morning to investigate...Can you give me some more info on that "hissing vacuum leak" please? Is it smth I could locate and fix on my own??
     
  10. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,459
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    #10 vrsurgeon, Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a picture of my engine compartment. My car is a euro model.

    I see one plastic "T" connecting two lines from each cylinder head, with one to the air oil separator.. is yours like this?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Curt
    #11 vrsurgeon, Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,459
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    Psaltis auto parts might be able to help..
     
  13. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Yes, mine is like that. (photos are the same aren't they?)
     
  14. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    #14 DrG., Jun 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    16,459
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    Are you still hearing that sucking sound?

    If you're worried about air being sucked into that T-fitting, you can put some plastic zip ties around where the hose fits onto the T-fitting to make it fit tighter. It can be hard to diagnose over the internet. :( If you hear the sucking sound, then its possible there is air being sucked into the engine somewhere. Finding where this is sadly requires listening and wiggling and even spraying with carburetor cleaner in the area to diagnose any loose connections.

    This is a diagram of all the parts in that location:
    Ferrari 360 Modena Parts : Table 21 - LUBRICATION SYSTEM AND BLOW-BY SYSTEM
     
  16. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Thank you, I have studied this diagram (eurospares.co.uk)...I have given up :-( ... I will have to wait until Monday when they will pick the car up. If only there was another technician here I could trust...
     
  17. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
    16,459
    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    Sorry to George. :( Please let us know how things workout... and ask the technician what the codes were then let us know. We can sniff out the BS. :)
     
  18. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Yes, sure. Will update soon. Thanks again.
     
  19. anconbrat

    anconbrat Karting

    Jul 9, 2011
    96
    East central Florida
    Full Name:
    Don Morton
    George, are you absolutely sure you have no alternative shop to service your car? The obvious problems they overlooked is scary. Not impressed AT ALL. The assistance you get here from guys like Curt will certainly help, but the service you are receiving is very shoddy. Continue your search and best wishes to you.

    Don
     
  20. netman

    netman Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2008
    1,905
    OC SoCal
    I would recommend swapping your plastic T fittings for brass ones. Plastic tends to crack due to age, heat, etc.
     
  21. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou

    Don, I am aware of all this....But I'm living in an island with a population of 800k people. There are simply not many options, for many things. I have said multiple times that I won't be going back there (I own the car for the last 6 years), but having spoken to other owners and searched things, all I hear is more scary stories... Some people I know, have decided to sell their Ferraris for this particular reason: lack of decent service.
     
  22. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Any ideas where I could get suitable brass fittings for the 360?
     
  23. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 12, 2013
    5,469
    CA Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Steve
    It's possible that a loose air box cover allows more hot air from the cat and muffler rather than air outside of the engine compartment. The hot air will throw off the IAT sensor on the MAFs causing the ECUs to lean out the AF mixture ratio. Can't really tell unless you get the code(s).
     
  24. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    Although most technicians find it unlikely that a loose box cover could trigger the CEL, this hypothesis sounds very logical and plausible...I will have to wait and see. Will update soon.
     
  25. DrG.

    DrG. Karting

    Jan 2, 2010
    184
    Limassol-CYPRUS
    Full Name:
    George Eleftheriou
    * Can a bad FUEL vapour filter (that black canister in the right of the engine bay) trigger the CEL? (wrong fuel pressure) *
     

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