F40 Fuel Tank advice | FerrariChat

F40 Fuel Tank advice

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by fbrs2, Oct 11, 2016.

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  1. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #1 fbrs2, Oct 11, 2016
    My bags need replacing and the holding 'tanks' are a mess so I want to replace them too. Car is in the UK but is US spec (so I believe still has reinforced chassis for non bag tanks). I'm toying with the idea of putting US non bag tanks back in so I don't have to keep replacing them. Does anyone have a view on bag vs. non bag tanks? Are bags really that much safer in a crash?

    Secondly, car will never be 'classiche' so no need to stick with OEM. What would be people's prefered suppliers for the bags and the holding tanks? Either side of the pond is fine. ATL?

    Regards,

    Frank
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,313
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    #2 greyboxer, Oct 11, 2016
  3. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK
    #3 Camlet1, Oct 11, 2016
    DK put ATL tanks in my car. They've been perfect.
     
  4. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
    6,323
    UK
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    Tim
    #4 Traveller, Oct 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  5. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2013
    618
    Oxfordshire, England
    #5 Red Sled, Oct 12, 2016
    As for aluminium vs bag tanks, they should both be safe for road use. There was a thread here going back several years with Joe Sackey and Napolis among others discussing the relative merits/demerits. I am no expert, but majority of F40 fuel-related fires are the result of line/union failures rather than tank failures provided you use a good quality bag e.g the OEM aero sekur or ATLs. Camlet1's poor experience was with a UK tank - not sure of the make.

    If you do switch to Al tanks it may be worth checking of the availability of parts - in particular the US submerged fuel pump assembly (pump is #193836) whereas if bags are currently installed then you are more likely to have the external Euro pump #199618. Pumps are becoming hard get rebuilt let alone replace.

    While you may find a conversion to OEM US spec difficult, if as you as you say you are willing to go non-OEM, then I am sure possibilities open up at a price.
     
  6. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #6 fbrs2, Oct 12, 2016
    Indeed. I'd forgotten about that thread. In my defence I had to get my head glued together after a bump yesterday! :) Car been in bits since last year! Been jerked around by a couple of companies supposedly making us new tanks, fortunately just a waste of time not money. I did contact MT but they wouldn't give me a price and wanted the car first. I guess DK are my next call.

    Excellent point I hadn't considered. Yep bags currently installed. I guess I'll stick with bags as the car will certainly be seeing the track.

    Thanks all.
     
  7. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
    206
    UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin O'Rourke
    #7 Telaio, Oct 13, 2016
    Hi Fbrs2, please be advised that our replacement tanks are a replacement for ATL tanks which have different fittings to the original tanks, we needed to see what was fitted to your car so that we could cost the work accurately; hence our need to see your car ......... so sorry if you thought we were jerking you around, it seemed reasonable to us. Kindest regards, Kev.
     
  8. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #8 fbrs2, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
    Sorry I certainly did not mean to give anyone the impression MT had been one of the companies that wasted our time, on the contrary. I understand why you wanted the car but it isn't even a rolling chassis while everything is getting rebuilt so logistically would have been a pain. No disrespect at all to MT intended... tims car (and tanks) are a work of art.
     
  9. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #9 fbrs2, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Fwiw this is the mess that came out. Does anyone have any pics of what regular euro tanks look like? Maybe these are, I don't know.
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  10. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
    206
    UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin O'Rourke
    #10 Telaio, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Team, in all our experience we have never seen fuel tanks like these, is this a standard car ? with the greatest respect they don't look factory, for your reference I have posted two photos showing Euro style bag tanks, as you will see they sit in Fibre glass support frames, incidentally we have moulds for making these frames if you can't get original parts, let me know if I can help, cheers all, Kev.
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  11. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #11 fbrs2, Oct 14, 2016
    Hi Kev, no it's not standard. It's a wannabe LM. Very interesting pics thank you. The standard glassfiber support frames appear to offer almost no protection at all to the bag. Do real LM's use the standard support frames or a more protective 'tank' for the bags?
     
  12. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #12 fbrs2, Oct 14, 2016
    Well that's a very polite way of putting it! I'm told they are the original US ally tanks 'converted' to hold bags... will be pulling them apart to see what bags they are.
     
  13. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #13 fbrs2, Oct 17, 2016
    Does anyone know of any track or race US F40's are running bags?
    I'm wondering if the extra bracing on the US chassis prevents a direct replacement with euro holding frames and bags...
     
  14. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
    206
    UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin O'Rourke
    #14 Telaio, Oct 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Team, we have an F40 in at the moment which we are taking up to LM'ish spec, as you will see it has USA style alloy tanks with side protection beams fitted, I'll check the clearance tomorrow and will report back, cheers all, Kev.
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  15. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #15 fbrs2, Oct 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Awesome thanks Kev. You're swaping for bag tanks?

    FWIW this is what my chassis looks like...
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  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    May 23, 2006
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    #16 joe sackey, Oct 17, 2016
    From a longevity POV, isn't it better to simply use these?
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

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    #17 BigTex, Oct 17, 2016
    One would think, but as far as street use, he would have to meet MOT standards, for "that year, Euro "(UK) specification??

    Interesting discussion.

    Thanks for the pictures!

    (I don't read the threads, I just look at the pictures!)
     
  18. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #18 fbrs2, Oct 17, 2016
    No, the MOT doesn't check anything like that. It's just a basic road worthiness test (and emissions for post '91 cars). The decision is really between intended use track/road and originality US/Euro.
     
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 BigTex, Oct 17, 2016
    I would think they would have a hard time checking it!

    Still, after a crash, the insurance here sniffs around, to find things like that...
     
  20. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #20 fbrs2, Oct 17, 2016
    Obviously in the UK too but there's no problem so long as you have declared all mods to the insurers.
     
  21. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
    206
    UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin O'Rourke
    #21 Telaio, Oct 18, 2016
    No Fbrs2 we are not swapping these original alloy tanks for bags, given that they are foam filled we see no point for this application. We note that you have twin fillers on your car and are currently checking for clearance issues, stand by, cheers Kev.
     
  22. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
    206
    UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin O'Rourke
    #22 Telaio, Oct 18, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi again Fbrs2, please see that I have attached two photos of the fuel tanks we currently have in stock, for your information there are always issues aligning the fuel filler hoses to the filler necks due to the random nature of these vehicle's construction standards ( and that is why we would prefer to have the subject vehicle here on site, also the person fitting the tanks needs to have experience and be capable ) I see that your car has twin fuel fillers so there would need to be modifications made, however these issues are not insurmountable and we would be only too happy to help you ......... as I'm sure you know we covered " Travellers " tanks in Fibre Glass and Carbon Kevlar for added belt and braces protection, let me know if we can help in any way, cheers all, Kev.
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  23. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2012
    309
    UK
    #23 fbrs2, Oct 18, 2016
    Thanks Kev, please excuse my ignorance, are those 'holding tanks' for standard bags or US style tanks?
     
  24. Telaio

    Telaio Karting

    Jan 11, 2006
    206
    UK
    Full Name:
    Kevin O'Rourke
    #24 Telaio, Oct 18, 2016
    No not holding bags Fbrs2 ...... These are alloy fuel tanks made to fit F40s' they are the same OD size of the holding tank frames so in effect they slot into position and are self supporting, also they can hold slightly more fuel than bag tanks if needed, hope that helps, cheers Kev.
     
  25. ProvaF1

    ProvaF1 Karting

    Nov 23, 2006
    155
    Australia
    #25 ProvaF1, Oct 19, 2016
    Hi guys,

    Currently in the market for a set of brand new tanks, the vehicle is a 1991 UK spec.

    We are currently leaning towards something that's non-bladder just for piece of mind, is Aero Sekur that "way to go" or are there other sensibly priced options available as they would need to be posted to Australia.

    Any advice is appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
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