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F40 in Bonhams Zoute sale coming up

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    multiple 6 figures with current prices of everything
     
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  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO this is a restoration project, done thoroughly by an F40 specialist, authorized dealer, or Ferrari Classiche, we are talking several hundred thousand dollars.
     
  5. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Who wld u send it to? Zanassi?
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Depends on the location or interest of the buyer, I personally just use my local Ferrari dealer Newport Beach.
     
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  8. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,384
    With that kind of mileage there is no need to spend a bean on it, as the next owner will not use it either. No sense replacing things that are time dependant and will need replacing all over again in the future, whilst the car has not turned a wheel anyway.

    It will always be from now on a static work of art, that keeps appreciating in value anyway.
     
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  9. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,384
    Although I must say, based on the condition of the various rivets, bolts and zinc passivate on brackets etc I would question the dry storage claims for most of its life, look at the state of that fixing screw in the frunk pic, why has that ever even been undone, never mind countless times with a blunt object!. Its had a hard life for such a short distance covered.

    I imagine the screws holding the odometer in, are probably in similar condition!

    Compare this car to Karims latest F50s in that thread, condition is night and day different.
     
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  10. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula Junior
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    It may have been dry storage, but it was definitely NOT climate controlled. Lots of surface rust everywhere on this beautiful car. Big paint chip on front spolier and is it me or is the rear Ferrari script emblem not level? This car was stored, but not stored properly. Humidity and moisture can ruin metal parts as we can see here. Shame....
     
  11. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    so once again, we see a car that has not been used for what it was made for, and therefore still requires insane levels of effort and money to get back to par, much like a car that has been used......with the only difference being a few digits on the speedo.....
    some humans baffle me.
     
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  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Not necessarily, it depends on the next owner, several clients of mine have purchased ultra-low miles cars, had them completely refurbished by Ferrari, and now use them regularly.

    Exactly correct, the perished seat padding, the sagging headliner and mold (!) growing on the interior composite panels are clear evidence of humidity & moisture.

    If an F40 is brought up to optimum condition and then used on a regular basis it really shouldn't cost much to run, and it'll stay that way for many years provided a scheduled routine of use & basic maintenance is continued. The problem is when the cars are rarely or never driven.

    As regards why some F40s have ultra low miles today, besides being the owner's prerogative, sometimes the low miles were not an intended plan, life, health issues, change of circumstances etc happen and cause some cars to not be driven.
     
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  14. FerrfanFL

    FerrfanFL Formula Junior
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    I'll take a quote and concurrence from the Esteemed Joe Sackey any day.....and take it as a compliment. :)
     
  15. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Or an individual's location relative to where their cars are stored and taken care of. ;-)
     
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  16. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Give me a clean 30k miles non cat, non adjust car over this any day of the week.
     
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  17. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    So 2.2m usd plus another 300k usd to make it right ?
     
  18. JackCongo

    JackCongo Formula Junior
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    That is mine ! :). Couldn’t agree more !
     
  19. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    that is exactly what i was thinking while reading the results.....
    furthermore, it seems there might have been accident damage on the rear and the roof.....so that gives it a further price hickey in the valuation matrix.

    basically, we now see very needy/questionable cars getting bid to the moon as long as the mileage is low - which is just stupid imo.

    it would be my guess, but i would say that when a 275gtb is changing hands, nobody gives a damn about mileage....
    well now that the f40 is firmly in 275gtb price territory, tell me why anybody cares about mileage anymore?
     
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  20. JackCongo

    JackCongo Formula Junior
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    I agree 100%. Especially as we know how easy it is to play with the odometer on those cars. I cannot understand why some buyers focus so much on mileage while a very well documented history seems key to me.
     
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  21. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    In any market, a low miles, one owner example of any car will command a significant premium over a multi owner, higher miles version.

    With over 1300 produced there will still be plenty of F40s that tick that box, especially as from the start they were selling for many multiples over list, so a significant number of those were set aside, and thus remain in that condition, so there will always be a wide gulf from the low owner. low miles versions and the everyday examples.

    Older versions of Ferrari were built in much lower numbers and were simply used from the go, also they did not have the rust protection and engineering of the more modern cars, so only a very small number can still tick the box of originality, and very rarely come up for sale, so the market has little choice but to pay big money for higher mileage restored versions instead if they want one.

    Here is a typical example, probably at a guess, DK have to shift 20 or 30 heavily restored examples such as this one for every untouched example they come across, so the sales spin has to be based on how wonderful and detailed the resto work was done etc etc.

    However on the rare occasion that an untouched version comes along, the originality will be lauded from the rooftops, in order to command a hefty premium, then back to praising restorations again for the next 20 sold.



    If this F40 had multiple owners then there is always a risk the low mileage could be questioned in the future if a previous owner stepped forward, however being a one owner car, despite the poor condition, it can be refurbished back to how it should have been, with little risk of such, and that no doubt was the lure.

    Problem is, in these internet days, it is only a few simple clicks to find that report, and see how it really was, market conditions at the moment remind me of the rush in the past to secure certain cars, by people who don't know cars, and just read the headlines and grab whatever is out there, those are the first to be hit hard in a downturn. F40s are in that sweet spot of nostalgia for now for the 50 plus age group demographic with money to burn, so they are the most noticeable risers, however they also fell out of favour back in the 90s and could well again.

    With costs of everyday items spiralling around the world, and inflation about to rocket as a result, and governments having to up interest rates at some point to try to manage it all, are we finally close to the tipping point we saw back in the early 90s, it certainly now feels like it.

    Past recessions were typically localised, and other parts of the world carried on regardless, where as Covid has impacted the whole world, the costs of managing it have been put on the governments credit cards so far, but now the statement has arrived and a chunk of it needs paying off very soon.

    Sure, the wealthy wont be worrying how they are going to be paying their rapidly rising everyday bills for now, but the customers their businesses rely on are starting to really feel the pinch and that will gather pace.

    There are enough discerning current owners of F40s on here, how many would really value an F40 such as the one above at the sum it sold for, would they be a buyer of such a car at that level? I bet few would, and I imagine far more are now seriously thinking of jumping ship while the tide may be on the cusp.
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    This is happening across the board, and it's not really a good thing for a solid healthy market.
     
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  23. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
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    imo once an older car is firmly a collectable then it's more tempting for owners to manipulate mileage, especially if they are low mileage examples as potential buyers expect the cars not to be driven much/at all anyway
     
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  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Obviously, and as we know with the F40 (& 288 GTO) it's very easy to disconnect the mileage so this has happened with a number of cars, and it's not that difficult to spot when a car is inspected, however, if you know what to look for you can corroborate the mileage in other ways, the car and it's records will speak to you.
     
  25. Birel

    Birel Formula 3

    Sep 12, 2005
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    We have a car on offer today with less than 180kms recorded and the one big corroboration is the date stamps on the original tyres which look to never have been on the road.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  26. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    My head hurts just to think about that...such an exciting car, sitting undriven in a garage for it's entire lifetime. *really* hope the new owner doesn't drive it an inch on those old tyres though, as it won't add much more to the 180kms on the clock.
     
  27. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i drove mine this weekend more than this car has been driven in 30 years.....
    what a travesty
     

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