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F40 Photos

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by TexasMike, Mar 5, 2006.

  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Amen!

    Let's not get bogged down with all these theories, opinions, philosophies, what-ifs, and should-haves.

    Here are some facts:

    1. The F40 Stradale (as you refer to it) is a car built and designed to be legal for the road, where it works quite well in conveying occupants in an exhilarating manner on streets, roads & highways - below find a number of images depicting the F40 in it's natural habitat.

    2. The F40 Stradale in standard configuration happens to also work quite well on the track exactly the way it is without modifications even though it is a road car, I and many many others have tried this to their satisfaction, and with this versatility lies another level of beauty.

    3. Ferrari SpA built a specific number of F40s with the involvement of Michelotto in the spirit you refer to, they are called F40 LM, true racing F40s some of which were dispatched to venues such as Le Mans and the USA IMSA series to do battle, most of which still exist as the ultimate track weapon, and as such, the car you seem to be dreaming about has been there for @ 30 years.

    4. We really ought stop whining & complaining about how F40s need to be changed, modified, repainted, etc, it's getting old, if one has an F40 and wants to ruin it, please go ahead, meanwhile, if one has an uncontrollable desire to mod, one can always buy a Hot Rod with which the possibilities are endless and nobody will be upset if you create a Frankenmod. Okay this one is not a fact but it's a strong opinion ;)

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  2. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Find attached an F40 LM racing at Le Mans, in this image it was held together by a lot of duct tape, but, it has bigger brakes, better suspension, a more powerful engine and is lighter than an F40 Stradale - fact. No ABS, no electric aids, Caterham philosophy but Ferrari genes, as you say.

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  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    In recent times, there are some people who enjoy their LMs on the track, and, they sometimes come available via auction or Private Treaty, F40 LMs exist.

    Meanwhile, I spoke to Niocola Materazzi at length, he in fact kindly did the Foreword for my 288 GTO book, and as I recall our discussions about the F40, he seemed very happy with the end-product as it evolved from the 288 GTO, no regrets

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  5. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    Ruin it!!!!!

    Joe unless you know the actual background of the car then it is out of order to generalise.

    I doubt we will see a build thread of this car now, and I would not blame the owner given the reception he received on here.

    This attitude is why Ferrari owners are seen the way they are by the general public.

    I have seen the photos of the car as it arrived for rebuild at Simpsons, it was never going to be a road car again ever, instead it became a true racer, the basis of why Ferrari exists to this day.

    The cars only became trinkets for the rich in order to fund the racing.
     
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  6. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
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    #2756 luigisayshello, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    1. The f40 was a 288 gto for track, never intended for the road when it was created.

    2.The standard version of the f40 had 650hp, with the CK engine and it was this car that made Enzo want a stradale version. The CR, the engine that the f40 was shipped, was a slightly more reliable and could withstand **** petrol and not be a headache for Ferrari. The 650hp engine upgrade could today be reliable anywhere.
    Unless you got a fresh build of tires I wonder how much was it possible or would today be possible to experience what the f40 was originally.
    3. The LM was the original f40 with more aero.
    4. The f40 is literally an Hot Rod and built as track car first, and has you might know, track cars use suspension, brakes and engines setups that work best for the driver and following the philosophy of the engineer "people pay to race GT cars, so they must get something in return and that's driving enjoyment" why would you not just put better brakes and a more modern version of the IHI turbos, that make even a smoother power delivery (the reason IHI were used) or a better suspension with the same rates but with better internals? Or lighter brakes with better bite and more feel? Every part was choosen with enjoyment (lighness and feel) and performance.
    How can a set of inconel pipes, lighter brakes, the ck engine upgrade, better suspension internals, fresh rubber, better cooling and intercooling, improving the longevity of the engine, a better control of ignition and injection for better reliability and power delivery would ruin the slightly worse version of what was the original car?

    P.S. I don't agree with the repaint either. Makes very little sense. Neither with a 1000hp undrivable f40. But in a world of f40s on plastic as rubber, overheating engines, just waiting to blow the hell up, cars with alignments more out of spec than a demolition car, suspension more shot than a russian 1M mile taxi on oem suspension, that people call 'sporty' and race car like, mods look a lot better in my eyes and maybe cars would be rotting away and people that just spent 1M on a car that is basically a dud would actually find what a f40 was all along a very fast and very enjoyable car, but instead they live with a car that everyone says it's awesome and they just can't understand why they don't enjoy it.
     
  7. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
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    Of course he doesn't, the cars were as great as he could make them at the time, why would he regret anything?
     
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  8. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    I think Joe's simple point is this - whether it be a Ferrari race car, a vintage, a supercar or a 488 etc., they are unique in the automotive world. In the opinion of many (myself included) they should be driven, shown and enjoyed but maintained as Ferrari intended. Owners should be stewards of the brand, and in so doing, they should preserve the car in its original configuration. Of course, nobody can stop an owner from deviating from originality (in some cases, horribly), but hopefully one day those cars will be in the hands of someone else who will take the care and expense to restore the car to its appropriate specification.
     
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  9. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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  10. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
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    And in the end my points are, oem cars are extremely important to mantain, but upgrading a f40 to modern EQUIVALENT technology, is nothing to be judged, if it follows the genesis of the car.
    If you are driving it why not drive the best f40 you could? It's not like you can't make the car as it was. Remember enjoyment and performance were the genisis of the car.
    How can anyone judge on the bad side anything and anyone that adds to this and improves reliability while mantaining the overall coesiveness of the car?
     
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  11. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    I understand what you're saying, but it is clearly just a philosophical disagreement. The car, any car, is a period representation and it's originality should reflect that period as intended by Ferrari. Of course, with time, most things are improved. Still, that doesn't mean I want to use modern components in my 89 328, or change it's original livery. In the case of the F40 (track or road versions) the cars were made a very specific way for a specific intent. They should reflect that.
     
  12. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    88
    In my mind what I said made sense but to be honest it might be pushed enough for a f40 to become another car.
    But what I think it's not passing is that the real and pre production f40/288 gto evoluzione was not the car that came to the street, but the car that came to be the f40 LM.
    Another thing that always comes to my mind are the IHI turbos. If the engineer was obligated to use the ****ty KK instead of the IHI and if someone today used the IHI, can you imagine how some ferraristas would criticize the man? The IHI turbos were put to give a power delivery similar to an NA engine, they bosted more and earlier, and that's how a f40 should be, linear, but, for some reason, maybe the ammount of f40 duds around, people got the impression that the f40 should be dead for until 3k or 4k and then have a kick. That's literally the opposite of what it should do, if it does that there is a problem with either cooling, ignition/fueling or something.
    And on the upgrade subject, what matters is the way the power is delivered and what was the reason behind the choosen part, so if there is a brand new garret that does a similar delivery of power, but even faster and without building so much heat, why shouldn't the IHI be upgraded? It's a jdm turbo that alone could be reason for ultrage. Or the radiators that today can cool better and weight less?
    The car would still be a practical representation of the time, just not a theoretical one. And what about the purpose of the car that got corroded with time and wear?
    What is more important the exact representation or having a usable car, not utilitarian, but usable and not blowing a piston out because you took your f40 to enjoy some mountain roads and it started to run lean, or just overheat to obvilion because you got stuck on traffic during summer? If sorted the car will be as awkward as ever, it will have it's niggles, but it won't get ruined so much everytime you enjoy it, on the other end, on your good point, it will be a lesser accurate representation of the car when new, but is this bad or good? Is ferrari restoring the 250 with the samr problems or sorting the major ones? What is more important a stock car that doesn't perform as it should or a modded one that does? Is the tonned down version of the f40 the real F40 or the car that left drivers and Mr. Enzo in love with the car to ask for it to be build as a street version? What about the engineer philosophy and objectives? The f40 was designed bumper to bumper by one single man, does he count? If so how much? How bad would it be to have a f40 upgraded using his philosophy? What if you upgrade the rods to a stronger spec with the same weight, or the pistons to more resistant ones? What if you lighten the internals and increase tolerances while balancing the crank, all well engineered and thought? What is right and wrong?

    In my opinion, if engineer Materazi was in good health he should be the one actually dictating what could be done and upgraded, sort of guidelines
     
  13. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Karting

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    Whilst I understand a desire to keep a few examples of any important model in perfect original condition I find your assertion quite bizarre. Where do you draw the line?
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  14. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    I don’t understand what your asking. I’m a purist. Whenever possible, I believe in maintaining (or restoring) Ferrari’s in their original and intended state, both cosmetically and mechanically. There really isn’t a line to draw. It’s pretty simple.
     
  15. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Karting

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    So owners should run, for example, period or similar tyres or brake pads? Do you feel the same about all cars or just Ferraris?
     
  16. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    Correct. My explanation was as clear as can be. You don’t need to poke and pick an argument to justify your mods. Enjoy them. It’s your car to do as you please.
     
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  17. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Karting

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    I'm not trying to justify anything, just trying to understand your statement. If you dont want to discuss it fine.
     
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  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #2768 joe sackey, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    I have to be honest here, I haven't the time nor the inclination to read all the posts especially the longer ones.

    I must point out though that some of you ought to lighten up a little, I punctuated my main post on this topic with a ;)

    Personally I think all is good, until those who have the desire to mod begin to disparage or mock purists just for being purists, the real point is, both can co-exist, and its a matter of MYH (Make Yourself Happy). If a purist wants to be a purist, that should be appreciated & respected, meanwhile if a modder wants to mod, I say mod to your heart's content!
     
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  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #2769 joe sackey, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    I hope you are not a betting man ;) meanwhile his thread appears to be very straightforward, and it is better to see an F40 rescued in this way than scrapped.

    Really, as fbrs2 says, there will always be many cars coveted as they were made, and in fact, the more cars that are modded, the more valuable those that are kept pure become.
     
  20. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    Joe, I sent a private message to the owner days ago asking him to ignore the naysayers and post up a build thread regardless, and I am glad he took it on board and did so. I am also glad he is still posting trying to understand the negative reactions on here. Elsewhere the car would be lauded.

    He predicted the needling of the project from the purists, you had veiled digs at him, then showed your true feelings with the clear statement that any F40 that is changed from factory spec has been ruined.

    As you can see the project started as a car that was wrecked, it was reborn into a superb, properly specced racer.

    In the huge thread on here regarding the LM spec car that Mototechnique rebuilt I failed to see one single post claiming that car had also been ruined, this is a strange site at times.
     
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  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul, relax, the word ruin went on to be punctuated with a ;)

    See my two previous posts, all is good.
     
  22. Ferrari27

    Ferrari27 Formula Junior
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  23. dcmetro

    dcmetro F1 Veteran

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  24. Schulz308

    Schulz308 Formula 3

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    Art^^

    Usually the Euro Spec Ferrari models are the most attractive to my taste.

    Contrarily the US spec F40 seats,bumpers,chin, etc. are most appealing compared to Euro.

    IMO
     

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