F40 prices sinking fast? Asking below $499k and no takers

Fuel Cells done when?

If car has been kept up and has full service records and recent fuel cells and they'll deal a bit not badly priced today.

 

This car looks like abit of a track day hound ie different wheels / brakes / exhaust etc. If you want a cheaper f40 this is the way to go but it will always be cheaper than the straighter cars. Also as its in Switzerland if you want to register it in an EEc country their will be duties to pay so this needs to be taken into account (17.5% extra?). Miles are abit high also but depends what your budget is.Just done the calculation to £ thats £230,000 at the mo which is high for a car like that ie one that has been heavily tracked and high kms. Obviously the £ is low against the swiss franc at the mo so that hurts it. Depends on what currency you will be paying in .

 

although i can register a car in numerous countries, the most convenient one at the moment is switzerland - hence my search on that site. unfortunately they are also usually the most expensive.

but back to your comments. i am always hearing from many on this site that the brakes on the f40 are inadequate and need to be stepped up by putting on after mkt brembos or if you can find them, michelotto's kit. similar stories about the tranny. i also hear, and believe myself, that useage is a good thing, and this one has 28k miles on a 16 year old car - not a lot per year is it?

so why is this one not good if it already has these things done, or has been driven?

 

Ross, I spent alot of time looking at F40's before I bought mine. The track dogs have been hammered - you spot them because as you say the brakes are a weak spot on the F40 because of the power (although ebc pads help) and they have been changed along with the wheels/ harness/ exhaust to make the car better for track use. If all the moneys been spent then good but cars like this now fetch upto 20% less than the more original ones. The F40 is now firmly a classic Ferrari and like it or not does have an investment status. The kms (genuine or not) and the originality heavily affect prices and resale. But if the budget is at this level then I'd rather have one of these than not at all!

 

Miles are a total non issue as is track use if maintained. Some of my Le Mans cars have 60K miles on them. One of them had 3300 miles put on it in one day.

These are very robust cars. Sal has worked on them and says with proper maintenance they'll go for ever. I know people in Modena who can bring that Puppy up to any shape you want.

DK are also very good with these cars.

Best

 

I agree with you, that miles are not an issue because these cars are indeed very robust if maintained properly. But the theme of this thread is not durability, and the car discussed here is not a confirmation of sinking prices. It is a modified car with a - for F40s - higher than average milage, and those cars will always have a discount in any market.

Regards!

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122757588574055233.html

 

well since i intend to drive it (hey you only live once and i intend to make the most of it), then i am probably better off with one that has been tracked sensibly and prepped accordingly. that way i wont feel bad about putting more miles on myself !

i will be at the bonhams auction in gstaad in december, so that will be an interesting price indicator for the mkt to come.

 

"In the past year many collectors who used home equity loans...."

And there is half the problem.

 

A bit scary that.

 

As a dealer why would that be a problem? Someone comes in and makes a deal with you and do you really care about the source of his funds, whether cash from savings or a loan of some sort. You are being paid and the sale is complete. They used a financial vehicle that was valid at their disposal.

I dont see any problems other than some vehicles prices dropping and some dealers not making as much and some people losing a loved car in tough times. Its just a normal market cycle, albeit one that is currently very turbulent.

Given the large price drop in the past, there is nothing really going on here that was not at all possible. The next down cycle might be worse or might not be as bad.

 

but surely nobody would use a home equity loan or some other credit to buy an F40! (sarcastic) And surely an F40 is more of a collectible than a Daytona Spyder (also sarcastic)

"The love of cars never outweighs the love of money," Mr. Gooding says. LOL, how true.

 

This is very simple.

What I meant was that as the equity in homes disappears, cars purchased with the use of that now non-existent equity, are likely to be sold (rather than held), at motivated prices. This of course makes for a more volatile, softer market.

I didnt mean that it was a problem from a dealer's perspective. I meant it was a problem for the stability & strength of the marketplace overall. My humble one-man's opinion within which I steadfastly operate as it relates to Ferraris & Lamborghinis is simple: if you cant plunk down the cash, you cant afford it. Just my personal opinion.

 

Joe,

I know you are well reguarded in the community. Thanks for the response. I understand the impact the equity(or lack of it) has been having. I was just asking an honest assesment based on how you operate. Last sentence says it all of course. Surely now, cash is king and the purchases made now will be ones by enthusiasts who will use and operate the machines for enjoyment and for a long time.

 

Thank you for your understanding...

 

Maybe the good thing about this bad period in time is the chance for real enthousiasts to again buy cars they will enjoy.
It's a pity that so many cars have disappeared in storage and are never seen or used.

If you have a very special car I feel you owe it to the many fans to show it now and then; as they say: You don't own a special car, you are just allowed to take care of it for a period.........

 

Well said, Joe.

These few sentences, to me, are the x-factor that will determine who in this thread turns out be right, and who turns out to be wrong. If, as some say, almost all F40s are owned by passionate collectors that are highly solvent, the prices will stay supported. However, if that is the case, I would actually expect to see the number of cars for sale DECREASE. What motivation would this owner type have to sell in this market.

More likely, there is a sizeable percentage of speculators (or indeed collectors who, all the same, routinely speculate) such that the current crisis will play a role. If it ends up playing a very significant role, I would expect to see the number of cars available gradually increase.

Somebody mentioned it further up in the thread. This type of economic environment can make even the richest simply clamp down on their wallets. Spoke to a colleague today who has often contemplated Ferrari ownership. He has remained highly liquid during this crisis and can certainly afford it. When I mentioned to him that he could have his pick on ebay right now, he replied that he is "hunkering down and holding on to what he's got".

So, there is price support somewhere down the curve, but it's true that many who say they will be buyers will not be buyers, if and when the time comes.

 

The media is really a powerful force these days. Spread the word that they own assets of declining value and you will trigger someone to sell.
Haven´t you heard that one before? And the fact that a dealer is confirmig low prices is not more surprising than that the sun will rise tomorrow.
They can buy cheap and sell with a better margin tomorrow when we all feel rich again. Welcome to market psycology lesson 1.

Good and interesting cars will always find a market without a premium. I will gladly buy another european F40 at discount prices, and my italïan friend as well, since he lost his deal. So I hope that there will be 2 cars in the market at let´s say eur 200 K. We will go there at once, but this christmas wish will most likely not come true. Sorry to say.

Regards !

 

IMVHO there are only 20 to 30 good US cars to choose from. By good I mean driven, unmolested and well maintained, documented and no accidents. I could be dead wrong; I'm not in the biz, but thats what I've gathered over the years. I suspect some of the high dollar cars were never worth the $$$ to begin with, somehow managed to inflate themselves as the supply of good cars dried up, and are now coming down to where they should have been all along. A wrecked car with a bent frame for 450k? Pleeease. Wasn't worth it then, maybe half that at best.

Original vs. non-original not such a big deal IMO, but caveat emptor as OEM parts are difficult if not flat out impossible to find. On a heavily modified car you really need to know the quality of the work as backing them out may be a real PITA and $$$. Having purchased 2 F40s myself I know you could easily spend 50k getting parts and a neglected/low-mileage car running right. And of course if you ever want to sell the car then you're dealing with it again on the back end. If you plan on keeping the car then its a non-issue.

 

I'm sure you're right. The Wall Street Journal is too stupid to see that the Dealers are talking the market down so they can buy up all the great cars cheaply and sell them for a huge profit when everyone can afford them again.

Econ 101.

 

Profit.

Such a dirty word.

One which should never be used to describe any Ferrari owner's business activities.

 

I agree with your thoughts precisely on modified F40s.

I also agree that the SUPPLY of good F40s (according to the parameters you described) are few & far between.

But, only 20-30 good (181-191 bad or not-so-good) US F40s? I think there are many more good ones. You just dont know about them because they never come on the market. As Ive said before, we might think 6 advertised USA F40s on the market is a lot, but considering they made a fair few (211) thats only 3% of the cars, most of which, admittedly, have some issues as covered by your parameters.

According to my registry, there are a good number of the 211 USA F40s that have NEVER been sold since new and some of them make regular trips to the dealer to be fettled. One hopes they are also being driven, but these cars are certainly unmolested, properly documented and have had no accidents.

 

Joe

Stop misquoting me. My remark was clearly sarcastic as noted by which you left off.