F40 Value - "The Gold Book"

I've obtained auto insurance quotes from AIG, which apparently relies on a publication called "The Gold Book." TGB values my 1991 US spec F40, 1950 miles, at $415,000.

On the positive side of the ledger, TGB says that my 11,000 miles 360 coupe is worth $130,000.

Why do insurance companies have such difficulty with car values?

 

Wil,

Insurance companies are a bit slow, or conservative, depending on one's viewpoint.

They arent the only ones with problems with keeping abreast with cclassic car values though: publications and magazines (dont want to mention any names) are also lacking in noting current trading values.

But seriously, try Hagerty. I find them to be very progressive, even allowing me to insure my Miura SV at $1m, and having no problem with current values of 5 other so-called collector cars, allowing them to be insured whilst in the name of my LLC holding Co. Amenable to policy changes multiple times during the course of a year too. Maybe because its owned by a car enthusiast?

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

+1 for Hagerty

 

How about Grundy?

 

It seems that, for a publication relied upon by at least one insurance company, the Gold Book is not very reliable.

 

Will, usually an appraisal supported by recent sales ads/documentation is enough for an insurance company. I use Liberty Mutual, agreed value coverage, excellent coverage and rates. One thing to note, if you ever decide to take your vehicle outisde the country, most insurers will not cover outside the US and Canada. Neither Hagerty or most other domestic carriers will provide overseas protection. In this case, contact THB Crowes out of London. They provide coverage through Lloyds of London, the best in the business.

 

In a word: no.


Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

John Apen, one of the original Ferrari of Atlanta dinos, does the Ferrari numbers (or he used to) for the Gold Book. While the retail numbers may seem off, the loan numbers tend to be spot on. Because the Gold Book is used mostly by lenders, it serves its intended purpose.

I don't know if you are using AIG's private client services program. I am, and have been very pleased. They paid like a slot machine when my mom's home got hit by a hurricane, and their adjusters got there ever before the power was restored.

On my cars, I haven't had any problem with setting agreed value, even though the Gold Book numbers might seem off.

The best news is pricing has been competitive for full boat coverage with unlimited mileage.

Hope this helps.

Dale

 

"I don't know if you are using AIG's private client services program"


They are the source of the quotes I've received. I'm told they'll take an appraisal, but I wonder whether this "Gold Book" business is a red flag. I'll continue to talk to them, perhaps consider spinning the car portion off to a Hagerty or other specialist. I appreciate your general comments about AIG.

Edit: my sense is that AIG knows little about the collector car world. Their values for some of my cars were close enough, but several were silly - telling me a pristine US Spec F40 is worth $415k just makes them look uninformed, no? Surely no one here thinks that's even close to correct ....

 

A year ago it was

I don't know if it's entirely reasonable for an insurance company to be expected to stay up to date on the month-to-month price trends of highly limited vehicles such as the F40.

 

Just curious because I don't follow F40 prices, but I'm assumig that $415k is too high, yes?

Dale

 

$415 has been too low for a pristine, low mileage US F40 for maybe two years? I'd defer to the dealers here. Let's use my car as an example, 1,950 mile 1991 US car, pristine with everything. I'd guess current value for such a car at 550-600? That's pretty far off $415. And F40s aren't all that rare, there's a market one could track. If one holds oneself out as an expert - especially if you call yourself The Gold Book - IMO you ought to be in the ballpark.

They valued my '67 330GTC at 228 - not bad, probably a little low for an excellent car IMO, but close enough.

$130k for my 2000 US 360 w/11k miles is a laugh. I'd sell it for $130k in a heartbeat and use the money towards buying several $415k F40s.

They accepted my value of my 212s - The Gold Book site doesn't cover my cars.l

 

Interesting. I guess that this is what happens when you hang around too much. I remember when F40s and 288s were $350k cars all day long.

Yeah, I'd say that $228 for a number one condition GTC is a bit low. I have an interest in a 67 GTC that it is in "good old car" number 3 shape that I was just told is worth $195.

Go figure, huh?

Dale

 

prices on DR are $620K and up...

 

In this day and age a nice one is gonna be at least $100K more.

 

IMHO some of you are missing the point. Insurance Companies will write an agreed value at any price you want and adjust the premium accordingly. The only limit is preventing fraud. For example having you insure something that's only worth a $1 for $5 which could enable fraud. If you want to pay the premiums for $ 1 Million on an F40 and they have experience with you believe me they're happy to take your money so long as they believe you are not planning to wreck your car and take more than you really feel it is worth.

The other thing is that real collector cars often are worth much more than the damage you can inflict on them so while keeping a correct amount of Comprehensive Insurance makes sense less collision than the Value of a 250 GTO will bring it back from virtually any crash.

All insurance Companies are NOT the same. Some of the Companies mentioned in this thread aren't even Insurance Companies but simply place insurance with Insurance Companies and I'd very carefully check out the underlying Company because that's who's really insuring you. A low premium means very little if it's VERY hard to collect what your owed. In addition there are very few US companies that can insure some risks such as International shipping and liability coverage. Investigate very carefully.

Best

 

Try $200K or more.

 

True....

 

Hagerty www.hagerty.com (800) 922 4050 would like you to know that in fact, they WILL provide overseas protection.

They want policyholders and prospective clients alike to know that reports to the contrary are ill-informed and inaccurate. I specifically asked the Senior Representative the question: If it is being represented that Hagerty will not "provide overseas protection" would that be a false statement? His reply: "Absolutely"

He went on to explain to me that under the Private Client Services program, Hagerty provides two kinds of overseas protection:

1. Overseas Shipping coverage.

2. Overseas Touring coverage.

Under their Overseas Shipping program coverage is placed via Hagerty itself, who then farm it out to Lloyds of London who underwrites coverage. But he stressed: Hagerty DOES provide overseas protection, and the rates are discounted to them by Lloyds so it does not cost a penny more writing it through them. Obviously this is important for a Hagerty customer (such as myself) to know as you do not need to engage any other insurance company in order to effect overseas protection, thereby effecting complete convenience for the policyholder.
Coverage here is as the name suggests.

Under their Overseas Touring program coverage is placed by Hagerty itself, and Hagerty UK www.hagertyinsurance.co.uk underwrites the coverage. This coverage is wholly provided and underwritten by Hagerty without the partnership of an outside carrier. Coverage here is as the name suggests.

He went on to explain to me that at this very moment, Hagerty is providing overseas protection for several Ferraris that are over at Maranello for the 40th Anniversary of the GTB. Furthermore, he explained that Hagerty is also currently providing overseas protection for several Ferraris that are headed for Bahrain for an event there. Perhaps owners at that event will get together to compare insurance premiums!

So for those of you who have Ferraris covered by Hagerty, why not plan a European vacation? Just let them know when and where youll be headed... Monaco in late May sound good?

As a licensed California Insurance Agent from the days before I sold my insurance concern, I chose Hagerty very carefully, whilst also knowing that there are indeed other excellent companies out there. But Im at pains to note that I have absolutely no affiliation with Hagerty other than being a customer, like many Ferrari owners. I just wanted to set the record straight. Hagerty for their part are none-too-pleased because of the potential loss of business revenue caused by distribution of blatantly erroneous information on a public forum (sadly not an uncommon occurence on the Ferrari Supercar section).

As for most of the other "domestic carriers", theyd have a lot to say on this subject too, but that can be forthcoming another time.

Brace yourselves...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

See page 61 of the current issue of CAVALLINO magazine. Top half of the page.... speaks for itsef, as if to underscore my points above.

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Take a breath Joe, you're hyperventilating again. Hagerty's standard policy does not provide overseas coverage, fact. Coverage is as you stated "farmed out", at extra cost of course, which was my point. Now, I'm going on that trip to Bahrain and shipping a car in the process, so I have first hand experience with this. The company that many participants eventually chose is also underwritten by LLoyds of London, with full replacement cost coverage for shipping, static and track portions of the wonderful event.

A group of folks that sought protection and insurance coverage for this event are sending over some of the finest Ferraris in existence. Hagertys was considered for the event, they were not chosen by this particular group (myself included). Whether any other participants in the event were willing to insure through Hagerty's, I assure you it was at extra cost and through separate underwriting, not a standard policy.

In the interests of privacy of the participants attending, I will not be sharing any further details of the insurance arrangements.

I'm sure however, another long winded and self promoting post will be coming forth from you shortly.

 

I can state unequivocally, along with RufMD, that Hagerty CANNOT provide overseas insurance, at any price.
I am a long time Hagerty customer for US based coverage and when I was ready to make arrangements for my cars to be shipped abroad I obviously went to them first to find out if my policy covered my cars in shipping transit and at my destination. The answer was no and I would require additional coverage for my cars if they left the US.
I went through three weeks of frustration waiting for a definitive policy arrangement that never materialized from Hagerty, only to be able to arrange coverage through Lloyds almost overnight.

It's irresponsible to advise anyone that a third party can do something without certain knowledge, or even better, experience, of the facts.

 

So youre saying their Ad on page 61 of this months CAVALLINO is false advertising, correct?

They say they provide overseas coverage in that Ad.

Ive checked with them and they say they do.

For you to be correct, Hagerty are lying to their customers and are engaging in false advertising.

Pray tell us which is it?... I will be happy to inform Hagertys on Monday morning that they are engaging in false advertising according to you and refer them your post so that they stop their irresponsible and actionable behaviour...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

typical...I don't pretend to be an insurance expert, I'm just a customer....and I know which company I didn't choose.

 

Joe, there is no mystery here. I am sending two cars to Bahrain - my F50 and my 275GTB. It would have been the simplest solution for me as an existing Hagerty customer to have Hagerty write the endorsement or new policy or whatever it was they required in order to properly insure my cars for the trip. I spent literally several hours on the phone with both my US Hagerty rep as well as their Europe based rep and in the end they simply couldn't get it done after three weeks. I was referred to a Lloyds agent out of London by a friend and they placed the coverage almost immediately and at a price almost half of what Hagerty had initially quoted as an estimate for the coverage.
It turns out that Hagerty was trying get a Lloyds policy anyway and simply on-sell it to me and the others of us who are going to Bahrain.

Hagerty is a broker, not an insurance company, with the difference being that they usually purchase the coverage wholesale and retail it to their customers. It is a very suitable arrangement for insurance is a generally accepted method of buying insurance. If you are a Hagerty customer the insurance card they provide does not list Hagerty as the insurer, rather it lists the actual insurer like Encompass or whoever they bought it from.
So yes they are accurate if they say they offer travel insurance, but they are simply acting as a broker. The reality of the experience in this particular case, (the cars going to Bahrain), is that Hagerty failed to perform what they advertised. The penalty to them was the lost business, but more importantly the loss of reputation with their customers.