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F40 Wheel removal

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by Neilm, Dec 31, 2013.

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  1. Neilm

    Neilm Rookie

    Nov 23, 2013
    14
    Kent, England
    Full Name:
    Neil Miller
    #1 Neilm, Dec 31, 2013
    Hi Gents, I'm new to this forum, and I live here in the wet and windy UK. sorry if this is a boring question as I found a couple of threads about wheel removal problems, and appreciate its easy to get a dealer to whip them off, but as the weather is so bad at the moment, i thought I would take off the wheels, change the pads for quieter ones and clean everything up over the christmas / new year period, and give me a break from building lego with the children !

    The dealer I use put new tyres on for me the about 6 weeks ago, but god has he nailed those centre nuts on, I just can move them. I'm using a 1.2m breaker bar to no avail, and i'm even flexing the bar and (I weigh 88kg) they don't budge at all. I've ordered online one of these new ingersoll Rand 7150 cordless impact wrenches, 780nm working torque and 1100nm max torque, which although its a 1/2inch drive, with converters I hope will turn my stock 1' drive OEM socket and undo them.

    My other cars are all 5 lug, so this is my only centre lock, and the first time i'm doing it on the F40, so perhaps this is this just a normal problem. I've purchased a huge US PRO torque wrench for doing them back up, so that should be fine. My questions are : is this normal with F40 centre locks at 65Kgm (470 lbft or 637nm) or has the dealer way over tightened them, and is it ok to undo them as carefully as possible with an impact driver ?

    Happy New Year to all of you for this evening and I hope 2014 is a good one.

    Regards
    Neil
     
  2. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,179
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Keith Verges
    #2 kverges, Dec 31, 2013
    Welcome to the world of F40 centerlock (centrelock) nuts, that are an extra PITA due to the octagonal style instead of hex. I think an impact may be a bit hard on the tool and the nut itself, and remember that one side of the car is reversed thread from the other (I always have too look to remind myself which is which).

    First, it takes 2 to do it in my view, as someone has to stand on the brakes or the wheel simply turns. Second, what I do is use a breaker bar of at least 2 meters and support it with a jackstand at the same height as the wheel center. Breakaway torque is huge - probably 750 ft-lb, and so at 6 ft it still takes over 120 lb of force on the end of the breaker.

    Now an impact might do it, but I think you would need at least a 3/4" drive and even then you may have to use extra air pressure of say 2-300 psi.
     
  3. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    10,008
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    #3 sherpa23, Dec 31, 2013
    Keith said perhaps the most important part - remember that one side is reverse threaded. He also has the technique right and that is how I do it. I would not use an impact wrench as I think it's too hard on the nuts themselves. Lastly, I tape them with electrical tape before I take them off to avoid marring the nuts and their finish.
     
  4. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
    3,179
    Dallas
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    Keith Verges
    #4 kverges, Dec 31, 2013
    The electrical tape is certainly a geeky touch. Although I may use it myself next time.
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    10,008
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    #5 sherpa23, Dec 31, 2013
    Guilty as charged. :)
     
  6. Neilm

    Neilm Rookie

    Nov 23, 2013
    14
    Kent, England
    Full Name:
    Neil Miller
    #6 Neilm, Dec 31, 2013
    Hi Keith and Sherpa

    Thanks so much for your replies on this, it really is appreciated as i know its a bit of a dull subject in the scheme of F40 conversation. Both of you have really helped reassure me as i keep scratching my head about the force i was needing to use and YES the nut rotation I have to work out each time i look at the wheel ( i guess its a 50+ age thing for me anyway ! ) and I was also worried about the nut finish damage as the socket starts falling away from the nut as you lever it and you worry about it slipping off, rounding the nut flats and also falling onto the rim ! I'm guilty of having had my 8 year old son holding the socket in position, and my 6 year old standing on the brake pedal, but then I didn't have 2m of leverage.

    I will have another go in the morning with an extension tube on the breaker bar to make it 2m, and will put the tape on the nut, great tips thanks.

    Ive always read the forums on ferrari chat with interest, as i have 2 other Ferraris, but its only since getting my dream F40 have I realised that its the family of contacts that makes the ownership such a pleasure as much as owning, driving and looking at the car itself. i wasn't sure that as a UK owner I would get a positive response from a US forum, so thanks again, great help and hope to talk again soon.

    best wishes
    Neil
     
  7. petrolfumes

    petrolfumes Karting

    Jan 25, 2006
    62
    Next to garage
    Full Name:
    mr petrolfumes
    #7 petrolfumes, Dec 31, 2013
    Hello Neil

    Take the car for a drive giving the brakes a good workout. Then try undoing the nuts while the wheels are still hot. That should work.

    Get your own torque wrench and also make sure the service department uses one when doing the nuts up.

    Happy motoring

    Paul
     
  8. petrolfumes

    petrolfumes Karting

    Jan 25, 2006
    62
    Next to garage
    Full Name:
    mr petrolfumes
    #8 petrolfumes, Jan 1, 2014
    I see you already have the torque wrench, you just need to make sure the dealer is using one!

    The impact driver is standard practice for getting the nuts off. Dancing on the end of a long breaker bar has its dangers. You want a 3/4" or 1" drive with a proper high flow air regulator. I use a Paoli Pitstop regulator that fits compressed air or nitrogen bottles. The first time I needed to take the wheels off mine I used up a couple of small air bottles before I gave up and took the car out to get the wheels hot. It was still a struggle with the heavy equipment though.

    I suspect the people who did the last service used an impact driver set to max to put them on. At least there was no danger of them coming loose.

    On our race cars we always loosen the nuts while the wheels are hot after the last run for the day. It saves a lot of aggravation back at the workshop.

    Hill Engineering make a good socket to suit the F40 wheel nuts. Use that and you can keep your original toolkit socket pristine.

    Paul
     
  9. Neilm

    Neilm Rookie

    Nov 23, 2013
    14
    Kent, England
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    Neil Miller
    #9 Neilm, Jan 1, 2014
    Brilliant Paul thanks so much thats really helpful. I will get hold of the Hill socket you mentioned, as my original socket isn't a perfect fit as some of the plastic coating on the inside faces has somehow come off with previous use even though the car has only done 7.5k. Good tip about getting the brakes hot, trouble is it hasn't stopped raining here for a month !

    If the electric impact driver I have bought doesn't do the job I will do as you suggest and get the Paoli kit that I've seen.

    thanks again
    Neil
     
  10. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3

    Feb 11, 2002
    1,532
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Full Name:
    Drew Altemara
    #10 Drew Altemara, Jan 2, 2014
    I use the same method as Keith. I bought the Hill Engineering lug nut socket which is well made and I feel a big help as it fits well, provides just enough extension from the wheel and will not slip. It takes a one inch bar. My bar is maybe 4 feet long and I put a pipe extension over it so I am getting to maybe 6 plus feet. At 6 feet and I weigh 170 pounds that is putting just over a 1,000 ft pounds of torque on the nut and that is what it has taken for me to get the nuts off.

    Good luck.

    Drew
     
  11. Neilm

    Neilm Rookie

    Nov 23, 2013
    14
    Kent, England
    Full Name:
    Neil Miller
    #11 Neilm, Jan 2, 2014
    Thanks Drew, I've waited having another go as my Hill Eng Socket arrives tomorrow a.m. and I've got the scaffold tube ready and waiting. main problem is that I've been moving the car rather than the nut even with someone else on the brake pedal ! if that fails i will use the impact tool thats just arrived too.

    thanks for the advice, good to know its wasn't just me experiencing the problem !

    thanks

    Neil
     

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