Guys, Just took my 430 in for an oil change at 12,000kms and have the car checked to realise the bushings in both fronts top and lower arms need to be replaced as they have cracked. Ok, not too big a hole in my pocket for those 4 bushings. Takes 2 weeks to get the parts and installation can be done in less than a day. But then before I could order the bushings, the service advisor informed me that the lower and upper arms might need to be changed since the bushings have cracked the ball joint connected to the arms may have cracked as well. Now the damage is considerably substantial, even more than swapping the clutch off the F1 tranny. Now this has got me all bothered. How true is that? I know Italians are known to be steel bending muscle bongos but are the Ferraris made so fragile? Bear in mind the 430 was never tracked, basically baby'd right from the start.
Boy that stinks. I haven't read about anyone else here with that problem. I researched the 430 here quite heavily also before making the purchase. Good luck. Please post your outcome.
Yep, had to have mine (2007 F1 Coupe with 6k miles) done after noticing slight knocking at full lock. Not sure how much work cost since it was covered under warranty, but know it was expensive. They recommend both sides (upper and lower arms) are done at the same time. Turns out these parts are very delicate and sensitive to regular road surface!
The cracked rubber bushings can be replaced by aftermarket polyurethane bushings. The problem with changing out the bushing has to do with the fragility of the control arms. The control arms are made with exotic metals (aluminum / titanium) in these modern exotic cars. Mechanics may accidentally scrape, bend, or damage these delicate arms in the process of getting the old bushings out. Fitting the new bushing in can also be a pain in the butt. The price of new control arms are outrageously high. Most mechanics will not take the risk of swapping out the bushing for customers. Used control arms with bad bushings and ball joints can be sold for a high price to companies that retrofit these bushings. Mechanics can make money again selling old/damaged control arms. this is the reason why most mechanics will tell you to replace the entire control arm apparatus. Ferrari owners usually are not as cost conscious hence the mechanic see this as a win-win situation for both parties. Pay a higher price for higher peace of mind. keeping a Ferrari out of warranty period can get expensive quickly for these wear items.
Thanks Lotus. Agree bat the cost conscious factor but just like being taken for a ride since this is my first f-car...closest I ever got to anything just as nice was a BMW M6. So thanks for the honest opinion.
Flamblocs (bushings) and ball joints are separately order-able service parts for both the upper and lower A arms. For street cars it's typically the rubber lining in the flambloc that cracks. If that is your case, then there is no reason to conclude cracked flamblocs means likely cracked/worn ball joints. It's very easy to inspect the ball joints to determine if they are worn or not instead of guessing and asking you to pay for not only new ball joints but also the entire A arm assemblies. I have raced 360 and 430 Challenge cars for 5 years and never had to replace a single A arm or ball joint due to normal wear and tear. Only the flambloc teflon linings in the Challenge cars need regular replacements. If I were you I'd take my car to another more competent shop.
The ball joint might be cracked, so you have to replace the upper and lower arms? Don't understand that
Where are you located? Get a second opinion. There was a thread about a dealer out here replacing motor mounts continuously and ripping people off for it while another dealer the guy took his car to doesn't do that. I think these guys are hurting these days and gouging where they can.
What's the risk of damaging the arms when replacing them? If what was said above is true, that it's very easy to damage the arms during replacement/installation, who's going to attempt it? So how did you fix your problem? Wanted to bring this thread back for its conclusion. And yes, this damage is totally unacceptable, especially at 7.5K miles. Whoever said you should expect to pay for crap like that just because it's a Ferrari is utterly stupid. Also glad it's not a normal occurrence. Good day folks.
The tech was very careful when removing the bushings to check the ball joints. Thankfully they were ok so I didn't need to change the arms as well since the ball joints are fixed to the arms and not separate pieces. The friggin dealership was pushing me to swap away the entire arms for the front and rear claiming they were already knackered even before seeing it without their own eyes. Shameless pricks.
Not surprised by that, unfortunately; glad you averted that rip-off. So yo had to do nothing, not even the teflon linings? Did you have any noises before, or what prompted you to get them inspected? Just curious. Just wanted to comment I wasn't implying all dealers are crooks, but in my own personal experience, most of the ones I've dealt with have been dishonest. Remember my wife calling me all scared from a 'luxury' dealership saying service guy said she had 10 miles left on the brakes and could get her killed if not replaced, while dealership did their 'free inspection' during an oil change. I knew they weren't close to worn at 10K miles since all modern pads have audible wear indicators. Told her to bring the car home, removed all 4 wheels to have a good look at inner pads, and ALL of them looked like new. Since that day I've been doing all the maintenance on my vehicles, even when it's 'free'. Oh, and when she took the car for a recall at 20K miles, the same damn thing, even when I had a talk with the owner a year before, and he promised it'd never happen again. Yeah, right! Traded car in with 40K miles and pads had plenty of life left. And no, no choice of dealerships here; only one (luxury) of each... if at all. Good day folks.
Basically I asked for the bushings to be inspected due to a hell load of squeaks when the car goes over speed bumps. Sounded like gramps old rocking chair. It was really driving me up the wall. Now it's tons better, just a couple of squeaks left which they told me could be behind the dash and would involve ripping it all off. No way on earth am I going to allow that. I can live with a few squeaks.
Stop the unnecessary panic Please !!! First of all, the monoball bushings used in the upper and lower control arms at all the corners in the F430, Spider, Scuderia and 16M, are of the best quality I have seen in any production car, very strong and very bulky. The same monoball bearings are used in the ALMS, FIA-GT, Challenge cars that bounce at high speeds over kerbs, use the grip from slick tires, they run the Nurburgring 24 hours, Bumpy Sebring 12 Hrs, and they see the abuse that street drivers would never put them through without breaking. As cwwhk mentioned in his vast Racing experience with this chassis, he has not seen these monoballs fail. Second of all, the inner bushings, the ones that attach the control arm to the chassis use rubber in the street cars, and delrin in the Challenge cars. I'm currently using Delrin in the Scuderia for performance reasons (less unwanted camber/toe changes). I can remove a control arm in 5 minutes and install it back in 10 minutes with the proper torque figures. I have removed my 8 control arms 3 times already to perform upgrades on the bushings, from rubber to factory Delrin, then to another set of factory Delrin, then to custom made in Texas better Delrin. So, it's an easy job to remove/install control arms, the control arms are very strong, the monoball bearings are very strong. The inner bushings (rubber in the street car, Delrin in the Challenge car) are of very good quality. The Challenge ones require more maintenance, but I have gotten away from excessive maintenance by using teflon tape around the bushings to reduce the play found on these Challenge bushings from the factory or using custom ones. However, the street car bushings (rubber) are long lasting, good for many years, very easy to replace if they ever crack, just press them out and put new ones in.
Exactly mate. Ferrari cars are hand made but that doesn't mean the parts are crap which the dearlership is insinuating. I'm confident the ball joints are in tip top condition and it was proven. Saw it with my own eyes. So a job that was supposed to be 7-8grand, was eventually reduced to 1grand to replace only the cracked bushings. The bushings used in the Ferrari are pretty interesting. Not completely rubber, but has a steel reinforcement ring in it so it should last a couple of years of hard driving. Unfortunately, not all of us are technically inclined. I'm sure changing the parts out is pretty easy for guys who have the know-how, but for dumb-nuts like myself who only know how to put the right foot down and close my eyes when an impact is imminent it's really a tall task to ask for. LOL. Thanks for the insight anyhow. You, amongst a selected few others, are a true asset to this forum.
Not going to name names here Dougy, but look at my initial post, Oct 2010. Problem solved already long ago. Dealership didn't do it of course...my middle name is not Roberto.
Hahaha glad its solved. I encountered similar situation before. They charged exorbitant amount for changing a screw nut! Learnt our lesson alr!
Thanks mate. I'm still a newbee to this whole supercar ownership thingy. First supercar in fact. Don't consider the M6 to be one. Used to but once I got my 430, she (i.e. M6) went out the door. When I picked up my car, I rang the new dealership right away and spoke to the service manager who was supposed to be buddies with the salesman who sold me the car. He went on ranting about the condition of my 430 about how the clutch was due for changing, how the suspension ecu is faulty, how the suspension arms need to be changed all round, how the bushings were all gone and the 'buddy' price he can replace them at. Honestly speaking, the price he quoted I could have got my domestic helper a decent used Honda for grocery shopping.
Yes they are known for cutting throats for the stuff they charged! Best is that we've bought the F430 from previous dealer and we still go back to them for servicing & maintenance. World of difference as ppl from old dealer possess much technical know-hows....
I had a similar experience a few months ago. The front suspension of my 2007 F430 coupe was squeaky and had all these "knocking" noises when travelling over uneven road surface. The official dealer quoted something in the region of S$5-6k to change the bushings (can't remember if it included the arms). Said this was the only way to get rid of the noise. I was not about to spend this kind of money just to get rid of the knocking noise - no matter how irritating this was. Subsequently, I sent the car in to an ex-Ferrari guy and he managed to "tighten up" whatever he needed to tighten up and the car feels tight and taut after that. No more irritating knocking noises. This was done for way less than S$1k. CM
