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F430 f1 shifting woes

Discussion in '360/430' started by aslowdodge, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    332
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Depends who you ask? Which would make you question whether or not to spend they money on an electronic relay. BUT if you already have one, why not eliminate any risk whatsoever, disable the beeps, and leave it in place.

    Not accusing at all, I'm just really curious why you wouldn't leave it in place.

    Kevin
     
  2. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    298
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    The beeps could not be disabled according to Scud Ing. Plus I haven’t heard of a failing relay on a post 2006 F430. It’s really more of an issue on the 360.
     
  3. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    332
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Agree. I did not realize that the beeping was undefeatable. In that case, I would probably have tossed it out a moving window.....

    Kevin
     
    Zed82 likes this.
  4. firewire

    firewire Rookie

    Feb 23, 2008
    24
    Have you checked the potentiometer? Same happened with mine. Delayed gear engagement.

    Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
     
    aslowdodge likes this.
  5. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    126
    Marietta, Georgia
    What is that?
     
  6. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    126
    Marietta, Georgia
    That would be pretty annoying. What was different on the 360 from the 430 that made relays an issue?
     
  7. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    298
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    Don’t remember exactly but it has something to do with the size of the relay.
     
  8. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    126
    Marietta, Georgia
    was it something like a 30 amp relay being pushed to it's limits so people went to a 50 amp+ one?
     
  9. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    298
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    There is a lot of info on the forum about the issue. I suggest you do a search.
     
  10. Fenz

    Fenz Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2018
    65
    SE
    Full Name:
    Johan
    I hope no one thinks that all of these relays beeps continuously.. They don't.
    I have had the advanced version of the Scud relay installed for almost two years. No problem, it works great. Beeps only once at start-up, no beeps while driving.
    Have friends with Lambos and Astons who also have these relays, they are also happy. If I remember correctly, Zed82 had an early version of the relay, which beeps more often than the later version. To get rid of the many annoying beeps you could send in the relay for reprogramming / exchange, but it's probably not free of charge.
    Alternatively, just unplug the display and use the relay standalone.
    As I work with electronics, I personally rely a lot more on a solid state relay than a regular electromechanical.
    But that's me..
     
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  11. BruceC

    BruceC Karting

    Apr 26, 2018
    67
    Hilton Head Island, SC
    Full Name:
    Bruce M Cochran
    The replacement ediff valve arrived from Eurospares today - trying to squeeze that in along with a new accumulator before our mechanic leaves to support the Challenge Series at the Finali in Italy in later this month. Stay tuned.
     
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  12. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    332
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Agree fully. That is what I was getting at as well. If there is any way possible to eliminate the beeps, always go with solid state!

    Kevin
     
    Fenz likes this.
  13. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    298
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    To unplug the display could also be an option of course. I’m more disappointed in the false errors that cost me a lot of money to diagnose for nothing.
     
    kes7u likes this.
  14. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    126
    Marietta, Georgia
    Dying to see what you come up with Bruce. How much was the ediff valve?
     
  15. BruceC

    BruceC Karting

    Apr 26, 2018
    67
    Hilton Head Island, SC
    Full Name:
    Bruce M Cochran
    Don't have the detailed invoice yet, but the valve & accumulator were ~ $500.
     
  16. Drflint

    Drflint Rookie

    Aug 17, 2016
    15
    My problem with the yellow warning lites was dx as e-diff solenoid valve at Naples Motorsport.Once replaced no further warning lites but infrequent shift failure does occur.
     
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  17. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    126
    Marietta, Georgia
    Was that the same valve pictured. Earlier in the thread?
    How often are your missed shifts? Stuck in gear or popping into neutral?
     
  18. BruceC

    BruceC Karting

    Apr 26, 2018
    67
    Hilton Head Island, SC
    Full Name:
    Bruce M Cochran
    Yes, that's the valve that our mechanic ordered. Hopefully going in next week.

    I personally am of the opinion that the relay module was accurately reporting the pump was running too long on occasion well before I started experiencing shifting issues, but as I stated before, the F1 trans was operating without issue, so I just ignored the beeps. The first shifting faults showed up the first weekend of May en route to a car show ~ 2 hours away. Sitting at a light in neutral, the trans refused to go into gear for 3 or 4 seconds. Happened again on the way home and then not again for 4 or 5 weeks. Gradually the frequency picked up - initially always from neutral to first gear, but now it is happening in several gears & both upshifts and downshifts.

    If we interpreted the ediff valve leak rate correctly, I can see where the F1 would not respond until sufficient hydraulic pressure was available and my thinking is typically "leaks" get progressively worse over time, so fingers crossed we're on the right track. Craig Waterman (website consultant) tipped us off to look at the leak rate based on the symptoms I described.

    Our indie mechanic mentioned the range of diagnostics available on the Leonardo analyzer for the ediff is staggering, so I can imagine it's not easy to know where to look when analyzing F1 trans issues. No disrespect for Zed82's service techs, but I could easily imagine the relay module reporting a legitimate error and even a qualified mechanic not zeroing in on the issue.
     
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  19. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    126
    Marietta, Georgia
    I’ll check every day to hear your result. I just dropped my car off to the shop and I wrote notes on what I read here and other threads. Hopefully my guy checks the bleed valves and e diff valve you got before shipping the whole system off to be tested and rebuilt.
     
  20. Zed82

    Zed82 Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2017
    298
    Gothenburg
    Full Name:
    Zlatan
    Well, three different service techs said the same in my case. One also contacted the original head engineer for the F1-system on the F430 in Italy to get help and they could not find anything. All the values were correct. But my gearbox worked flawlessly and does so to this day. In your case since you have some issues, the relay will probably display an error.
     
  21. evilruss

    evilruss Karting

    Jan 27, 2015
    55
    Rockford
    I've also been facing a fail to shift scenario on my 430. About 5 or 6 times now that I've taken the car out for a drive, each time I had a moment where my F1 light would come on briefly for 2-4 seconds and I would be unable to shift up or down. Was a little unnerving to be stuck and gear and unable to shift, but it always recovered, until the last time I took the car out. I came to a stop sign and shifted to neutral, which is where it stayed for the next 45 minutes. The last time however I don't believe I saw the F1 warning light come on. Every time it happened was after at least 15-20 minutes of driving time, and warmer days being 75-80+ temps out. After 45 minutes it eventually was able to shift again, at which point I drove it straight home keeping my number of shifts to a minimum without any further issue.

    Luckily or unluckily having the car stuck unable to shift for 45 minutes I was able to hookup my xdiag software to check a few things during that time. Mainly making sure the brake switch was indicating it was changing state when I pushed the pedal, and also when the F1 pump was cycling I could see the pressure going up to like 48+ bar or higher and then the pump would turn back off. I cycled the car off and on several times. Something I was able to hear though, was every time I was trying to either pull the up paddle, or press the reverse button, I could hear the actuator attempting to change gears. So I'm not sure if attempts were likely unsuccessful, or if the gear changes might have actually been occurring but possibly one of the potentiometers on the actuator are starting to fail when they get hot enough.

    I have a spare low mileage actuator, power unit, hoses, and pump assembly, so my plan was to first start with the actuator and potentiometers. I'd prefer not to just swap everything at once as I'd like to know what component is actually causing the issue. All the spare parts have approximately 10k miles except the pump which only has a few hundred. My 430 is currently at 40k miles.

    Russ
     
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