F430 in SportAuto Supertest, 12/05

how did the ford not hit a higher speed as it has more like 600 HP in reality?

 

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47719&highlight=sportauto+hockenheim
Hockenheim F1 Racetrack:

BMW M3 CSL:...........................1.13,5 min
F 360 CS:................................1.13,0 min
GT3:.......................................1.13,2 min
GT3 RS:...................................1.11,8 min

 

That is average speed, not top speed. The F430 and Ford GT have also shown to match up pretty well(in terms of acceleration) when tested on the same day at the same track.

 

1:11.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkII, 483 PS/1449 kg (sport auto 05/04)
1:11.8 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381 PS/1373 kg (sport auto 03/04)
1:12.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkI, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
1:12.7 --- 128.748 km/h – Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:13.2 --- Porsche GT3 MkII, 381 PS/1420 kg (sport auto 06/03)
1:14.1 --- 126.316 km/h – Ford GT40, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)
1:14.4 --- 125.806 km/h - BMW M6, 507 PS (sport auto 12/2005)
1:15.1 --- Ferrari 360 Modena, 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/99)
1:15.4 --- 124.125 km/h – Caterham CSR200, 200 PS/630 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.2 --- Ferrari Scaglietti 612, 540 PS (sport auto 08/04)
1:16.4 --- 122.513 km/h – RMS-Mini Cooper S, 270 PS/1191 kh (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.5 --- 122.353 km/h – Abt AS4-R, 480 PS/1780 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:16.9 --- 121.717 km/h – Sportec Porsche Boxster SP370, 370 PS/1431 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:20.3 --- Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 450 PS/2497 kg (sport auto 03/03)
1:21.0 --- 115.556 km/h - Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works, 210 PS/1240 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:21.8 --- 114.425 km/h – Mazda MX-5 Expression 2.0l MZR, 160 PS/1140 kg (sport auto 12/05)

 

Thanks for the information, those 911's are really fast.

 

1500 kgs ? thats a disgrace !

 

You missed a couple. I'm sure it was just an accident Gary.

1:11.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkII, 483 PS/1449 kg (sport auto 05/04)
1:11.8 --- Lamborghini Gallardo, 500 PS/1530 kg (sport auto 04)
1:11.8 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381 PS/1373 kg (sport auto 03/04)
1:12.0 --- Lamborghini Murcielago, 580 PS / 1650 kg (sport auto 02)
1:12.6 --- Porsche 996 GT2 MkI, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
1:12.7 --- Ferrari F430, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:13.2 --- Porsche GT3 MkII, 381 PS/1420 kg (sport auto 06/03)
1:14.1 --- Ford GT40, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 12/05)
1:14.3 --- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355 PS/1461 kg (sport auto 05/05)

 

Gallardo time is not "way out of line". It was also quicker then the Murcilelago as well as the CS at the nordschleife of the Nurburgring. On a tough track like that where a car is subjected to all kinds of scenarios, AWD is not a handicap but an asset. Add to ithat the 500Hp and the ease (and confidence) of driving a G, and you should not be surprised.

 

CAR AND DRIVER WEIGHT RESULTS - August 2005 (four corner scale weighed with identical fuel amounts and no driver):
3380lbs - Ferrari F430
3520lbs - Lamborghini Gallardo

CAR AND DRIVER ACCELERATION RESULTS
0-100mph
9.2 - Lamborghini Gallardo
9.4 - Ferrari F430

0-150mph
21.4 - Lamborghini Gallardo
23.8 - Ferrari F430

The F430 is about 140lbs. lighter than the Gallardo, which makes sense as the Gallardo's greater HP (+17) and greater torque (+33) over the F430 likely allows it to make up for the weight disparity for the most part.

Knowing this, those track times are spot on and right where they should be in my mind, though the Car and Driver F430 acceleration tests seem a little off to me. It should be identical to the Gallardo, or at least closer, which makes me think that they tested a car that was a little under the weather to be honest.

Both are fantastic cars, and personally I'm glad to see Lamborghini and Ferrari competing so well head to head these days...definite buyer's market. And now with the 06 Gallardo getting 520hp, and better gearing, it's even faster than it was in these tests.

Great stuff.

 

That could be, or even something mechanically might have been wrong on that car. Something as simple as the clutch slipping could have really affected it, and I wish these mag guys wouldn't just sweep things under the carpet like that to get their story to run on time.

As for the Road and Track numbers, they reprint the mfg ratings Gary, they don't actually go and have the cars weighed. As I noted, Car and Driver actually four-corner weighs ever car they test, it's something they adopted about 10 years ago as a standard procedure. It's good too, as it forces the Italians to be a little more honest with their traditionally light ratings.

 

Dreaming if you think the 430 weighs 3150lbs.

 

that is in fact the actual weight. 3150

 

In the C&D comparo, they were using a private person's car and exercised some restraint in the acceration tests. It was also a US car w/o launch control. They theorized that they might actually have been quicker in a stick shift car where wheel spin could have been experimented with. Personally, I don't care what cars my 430 can or cannot take in a drag race. Many of today's cars are brutally fast. I just care about the overall package.

Dave

 

Again, weigh it yourself, and dont cry when you see the results.

 

Nothing in the article indicates that they "exercised restraint in the acceleration tests". I have it in front of me and can find no words of theirs with that meaning.

The rest of your post is correct, they did definitely mention wheelspin, as well as guessing a stick would have yielded better results. I disagree with their take, as the F1 cars have always, without fail, tested at the same level or faster than their manual counterparts, even going back all the way to the F355 in standing start tests.

But I do personally believe there was something mechanically up with that particular F430, and I don't feel it's a lack of break-in mileage. Something else, possibly a clutch that needed adjustment.

As for the weight, I can't make it any more clear than I already have. People who are continuing to post Ferrari's published weight for the F430 need to go and have one 4-corner weighed without the driver in order to find the true weight of the car, just as Car and Driver does during each road test. I think you'll be surprised with the result.

Due to crash regs, emission regs, and even silly pedestrian safety regs, the day of the lightweight car is long over. Unless you want to cruise around on a motorcycle, a death-trap Elise, or a small Noble, it's tough to get below 3,300lbs. these days.

 

Here it is, word for word:

"Because US-bound F430s are not equipped with Euro-spec launch control, our car was put through its paces with a normal launch, using comparatively low revs as the clutch engaged. So our 60-mph and quarter-mile figures are not as quick as those of the car tested in Italy by tech editor Aaron Robinson in January. The F430 is still scary fast, and utterly seductive. The only quibbles were about its styling, and nobody like the imperative warning beeps."

There was no holding back during the test, just griping about the LC system absence, which is actually a good thing as they should be testing the cars as they come equipped for the North American market: their target buyer audience. In that light, the test results are representative of what a North American F430 buyer should expect from his F1-equipped car.

Personally I don't blame the F1 transmission, or its lack of LC ability, on the low times, as other North American F430s have been tested and performed at the level of the Gallardo, i.e., faster than this particular car. That's what leads me to believe it wasn't running at 100%.

As for the Italian test they mention previously, that was conducted using specially prepared factory cars, on Fiorano's too-short front straight, which includes a slight downhill grade. Results were not measured in the other direction, up the hill, as Ferrari would not allow it.

Because of that I'm not able to use those figures for anything besides entertainment value, as they aren't representative of the usual controlled environment these tests are typically performed with. Also, no other European test away from Fiorano to date has produced results that approach the Car and Driver test results in that Italian piece. More validation that they should be thrown out.

Either way, it's splitting hairs. Both the Gallardo and F430 are incredible cars. If the Gallardo is a little faster on the track, and the F430 is a little faster in a straight line, that's fine by me. Either are great choices.

 

Ferrari lists the curb weight at 3196 for Euro versions. I assume NA cars are slightly heavier. They also claim a 0-100kph (62mph) time in 4.0 flat, not 3.5 like some have claimed. Acceleration times can vary quite a bit depending on weather, surface and drivers, so I don't really put a lot of faith in any single measurement. Rolling starts like 5-60 will actually give a better idea of what a car feels like in real life, but that data is hard to come by. I think C&D elaborated more on the taking it easy aspect in answers to letters to the editor, which I did not save. However, it's pretty clear from the original statement of not using many revs for the launch that they were treating the clutch with respect, perhaps becasue they already burned out the Lambo clutch.

Dave

 

Have just sold my 04 Gallardo, waiting for an 06 Gallardo Spyder. Drove a 430 all day today, nice car, but it is definately not as quick as the Gallardo. I am convinced that much of the percieved 'quickness' of the car is due to the rather contrived exhaust sound...! I used to own an F40 (regret selling that..), and that was a quick Ferrari. The 430 just doesn't do it for me. The biggest advantage the Gallardo has is it's 4-wheel drive. It is amazing how quickly it 'claws' it's way out of corners. You can 'feel' the front tires grabbing as much road as possible as you get back on the power. The Ferrari doesn't stand a chance in this situation. I can assure you that a G car and a 430 head to head around the Nurburgring will result in the Gallardo crossing the line first. The 06 increase in HP and Torque will only enhance this advantage. I have to say that the build quality is better on the Gallardo also. I say all of this as a life-long Ferrari fan, but I prefer the look and performance of the new Lamborghini's, and I think that they have set out to deliberately and convincingly dominate Ferrari. It will take a few years for Lamborghini to establish their 'reputation' for well built and exciting cars, but I believe Ferrari ignores Lamborghini at their peril. To those of you who have yet to try a new Lamborghini, I suggest you find the time to drive one.