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F430 manual vs Speciale appreciation

Discussion in '360/430' started by sunyatsen, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. sunyatsen

    sunyatsen Rookie

    Oct 5, 2018
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    Hey guys, I’m curious what everyone thinks about the appreciation of the manual F430 vs Speciale. Which will appreciate more in the coming decade and why? Thanks!
     
  2. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

    Feb 5, 2014
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    The froth has come off of the manual market - at least in Europe. The manual F430 will always be worth a bit more than an F1 version, but will never match a true special edition like the Speciale.
     
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  3. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Speciale is way more collectible than a 430 man
     
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  4. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    Apologies for bringing facts into a conversation about opinions, but -

    In the UK there are currently 32 458 Speciales (excluding SAs) for sale at a price range between 250-350k GBP.

    There are four 430 manual coupes for sale, at a price range between 110-180k.

    The question was about appreciation, specifically, not about nebulous (sorry) terms like 'match' or 'collectible'.

    Given that price delta and the flooded market for Speciales, I'd suggest there's more room for appreciation in a 430 manual.

    I own a 430 manual and I reviewed the Speciale when it came out. Speciale's a better car, just like most modern cars are better than any older car. But for fun, joy, excitement, on the public road, there's no comparison: the 430 manual is in a league above. Speciale's just another step on the road to a computer game. I drove it down my favourite test route in the UK countryside and - wow, fast, but fun? Not really. Despite revving to 9000.
     
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  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think Speciale. Here are my reasons:

    It is arguably much better looking
    It sounds much better (The 430 has a very fake sound)
    It is much faster
    It was a Special Edition
    It is the last N/A V8 Special edition, possibly forever.
     
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  6. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I'd bet the question was supposed to be Stradale not Speciale. No ? Either way the last of the manuals will always be the last of the manuals. Ferrari will just come out with another exotic version of their v8s forever. Even so my heart says Stradale
     
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  7. mwstewart

    mwstewart Formula 3

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    Note that advertised price and achieved can be significantly different at this point in time, and £180k is extremely optimistic. The manual F430s were purchased as a cheaper entry to F430 ownership hence most have a low spec such as iron brakes, no carbon etc., whereas the Speciale was a unique car in its own right with many specifically developed parts, and of course, an engine described as the pinnacle of Ferrari's N/A mid-engine V8s.

    It's great that you enjoy yours (I did mine) but they are really not in the same league as a Scuderia, let alone a Speciale, hence the relative level of appreciation. :)
     
  8. ThunderHill

    ThunderHill Rookie

    May 23, 2018
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    The Speciale will always command a higher starting price, since it was a "special edition," but there's absolutely no dispute that the stick cars are rarer on the used market. There are DROVES of speciales available in the USA on Cars, AutoTrader, CarGurus, etc. You don't have options just in terms of condition, you can pick your color, the location you want to pick it up, and so on.

    At most there are usually 2-3 stick 430's for sale on the general market in the entire country. There may be more of them (?) but they're much harder to find.

    To find a fully spec'd one (CCBS, etc.) is a real unicorn.
     
  9. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    That's what I think too; 430 stick versus the Scuderia would be a more apt comparison. Just speaking for myself, I'd rather have the stick than a Scud, and it being the last manual V8 will figure large in the future.
     
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  10. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Same here. I've never understood the Scud fascination. A 430 with carbon bits and tunes to the suspension. Still has the same crappy F1 transmission that's an older flappy paddle variant. I guess some like the more unrefined ride though..

    I'd rather buy a 458 Speciale if I have the money. Better chassis from day 1. As the guy in his early 40's who will be the buyer for these cars in 15 years or so.. what do I know about appreciation potential...
     
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  11. sunyatsen

    sunyatsen Rookie

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    No, I meant Speciale. Both of the cars I inquired about are special in my eyes. Last of N/A V8s, and one of the last of the manual transmissions. I do believe the Speciale is a better car, but the rarity of the manual 430s counts for something. Here in the US, there are 23 Speciales for sale. I found 1 manual F430 for sale. But people generally seem to like the Speciale more so perhaps that is the one!
     
  12. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    Well then it boils down to how much you value the manual transmission versus the much more refined nature of the Speciale. It doesn't sound like you are particularly attached to the manual, so maybe the 458 is the better car for you. As for investment potential, I think it will be a wash, because the last ever manual V8 is a much bigger deal that any special edition. The Pista is even better than the Speciale, and I don't think the last NA V8 figures into many people's calculations at that point.

    But I could be wrong! :)
     
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  13. HH11

    HH11 F1 Rookie
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    Let's play devils advocate here. For the record I agree with almost everything you wrote.

    1) Subjective
    2) First time I've heard anyone say this. 430 stock or with an aftermarket exhaust sounds damn good.
    3) It is faster, but for a buyer not going to the track it will be all the car you'd need. The gearbox would rank higher here than overall speed.
    4) Yes it was a special edition but there are less 430 manuals than Speciales.
    5) True but the 430 was the last Mid Engined V8 to have a gated shifter.
     
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  14. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    The future is electric. Which I suspect as performance improves a base Toyota EV will spank most Ferrari's in 0-60 time... Nobody will care about normal aspiration. The added performance of the turbos for a given carbon output will only matter. Esp. if you eventually have to pay annual registration fees based on the annual carbon output of the vehicle. Sure you can own an old petroleum car, but can you afford to operate it?
    In these circumstances, lower performance of the NA V8 and higher CO2 emissions, why would someone pay more for less car that drives the same as a newer electric hybrid with paddle shift technology?
    I wouldn't.. I won't.
     
  15. sunyatsen

    sunyatsen Rookie

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    All very interesting viewpoints guys. I appreciate your thoughts!
     
  16. sunyatsen

    sunyatsen Rookie

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    Of course the future is electric, and I do own 2 Teslas. I love Teslas, but honestly...they are too refined. Too quiet. Sometimes, I want to get behind a screaming NA V8 engine or even drive a manual which I truly miss. I'm sure there are plenty of people like me out there too. ;)
     
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  17. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior
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    Appreciation on a monetary basis can be measured in different ways. Direct dollar appreciation or percent of cost basis appreciation. If you own a Speciale from new and paid sticker vs running out now and paying double sticker to buy a collectible will obviously give you very different results over time.
     
  18. sunyatsen

    sunyatsen Rookie

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    From today onward is what I had intended. Speciales are not double the sticker yet. I've seen them for around 5% above MSRP these days.
     
  19. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior
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    I think it comes down to the number produced. Which model has less production?
     
  20. sunyatsen

    sunyatsen Rookie

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    F430 manual has way less production numbers.
     
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  21. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior
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    I’d go with that then. More fun to drive too.
     
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  22. howl

    howl Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2011
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    Its supply and demand. To make the point, if there are 4 manual 430’s for sale and 12 buyers, you will get less appreciation than if there 30 specials but 1000 interested buyers. In response to the original question, sorry but I have no idea. Personally I think the manual is the last of an error. There will be cars similar to the special (think pista) that offer similar functionality and better performance. Personally I own a 430 MT I never plan to sell. I also own a 570s McLaren which at some point will be just another used car and replaced with something better. It is not a Last of breed like the 430.
     
  23. Dewinator

    Dewinator Formula 3
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    People's expectation of appreciation/depreciation should already be "baked in" to the asking price so there's really no point of getting people's opinions on it. :)
     
  24. TheDiffuser

    TheDiffuser Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2017
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    I agree 100% - Take away the subjective aspects of looks and sound and you are left with the simple fact - there are very few 430 gated manuals that come up for sale. RHD and coupe being the 'rarest' of them all. The Speciale starts at a higher price - it's a newer car - but IMO that doesn't mean it is more collectable or desirable.
    For the record Ive had the pleasure of a 458 and a 430. Both stunning cars!
     
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  25. TheDiffuser

    TheDiffuser Formula Junior

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    But what fun would there be in that!? The forums are a place to sound off, have fun and gain knowledge. That's why I come here.
     

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