F50 Tub Lifespan

It most likely was not extended, but there is definitely a seam there. It's clearly visible that the chassis was glued together there.

 

There was a subforum in the Australia section where 360C had his yellow F50's carbon relacquered (I think), both the interior and the engine bay when he installed tubis. Is this similar? But at the same time it sounds like you would need to completely strip the car down to the tub and do whatever it is you do to these things and then put the whole car back together... Not fun. I guess it doesn't make sense to me why a manufacturer would build a car of such caliber with it needing to be stripped down every ten years. And what about Enzo's ten years from now? Has technology advanced to elimitate this?

 

360C had some engine bay components cosmetically restored (as I understand it from the thread) not the tub.

Like all urban myths it sounds plausible... but documentation of lifecycle testing along with UV expose needs to be presented from a credible source for any validity to be ascribed to this myth.

 

Correct, the work was purely cosmetic. Though that does raise an interesting point. The carbon fibre was re lacquered partly because it was heat damaged as a result of the high temperatures in the engine bay, particularly around the rear mufflers. The tub itself seems well insulated; but is there potential for damage from all those heat cycles?

 

Not unlike limited production aircraft, the population F50s is small. Typically you watch for unexpected structural problems or failures in "fleet leaders" with the highest mileage or most severe service (F50GT?). Unless there have been actual field failures, or you have real evidence that the factory has repaired or rebuilt a F50 based upon inspection (delamination, cracking, etc.) this discussion is pure FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). That said, I would expect this FUD to depreciate F50 values at least US$400K and will be keeping an keen eye on FerrariAds.com and Ferrari Market Letter for your cars priced appropriately.

 

I thought I read that the reason for kroyman's car snapping in half was that he speared a catch fence head on, then the car spun around, while the nose was stuck in the fence; hence snapping the car in half. Sort of like breaking a pencil in half. that was an explanation from Ross Brawn..........
Kevin S.
Orchard Park, NY

 

Well if any car at all needed the tub repaired etc, or whatnot done to it, it would definitely be the F50K - the black one in the US that has 50,000 miles or so - don't you think?
Wasn't that car a daily driver?

 

Was Kryoman injured in that crash? And will someone with an F50 or Enzo contact Ferrari direct to see what they say? I seriously doubt a non owner could get an answer but they could try i guess...

 

That would be a waste of time in my part of the world unfortunately.

 

whys that?

 

I can help a bit...

carbon tubs are due for an Inspection at a ten year mark. Not replacement.

they are to be inspected for delamination and wear at critical load bearing tie- ins and joints. That is all. If for any reason the critical areas of the tub show damage or weakening, then they are to be replaced. Racing car tubs use different types of epoxy matrix materials. Road chassis are designed with longevity in mind, and so are much heavier than pure racing designs.

No need for a witch hunt. carbon tubs will last beyond all of our lifetimes. People testing physics by stuffing hypercars into walls or oncoming cars would die at those velocities in any car. Carbon tubs are beneficial because they are stiff and light, they are not magic bullets that allow you to crash and survive anything.

Cheers
Eric

 

Are you referring to that specific tub, or all F1 cars?
Look at the picture closely, it's clearly obvious. That is not the cross section of a carbon laminate.

 

Different cars use different manufacturing methods, and manufacturers have also changed them over the years. Pretty sure all current tubs are bonded top and bottom halves. That tub though, definitely has a seam there, even though it seems like a really stupid place for one. On that car, the seam was at the bulkhead where the steering wheel attaches.
It can be seen plain as day there is no broken carbon fiber. Just a failed joint.
Also included pic of an Enzo tub for comparison.
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Source is from the horses' mouth.

There is no simple short list of the materials in a matrix. It is also proprietary to any manufacturer. In basic terms its delivered in pre-preg form by the composite supplier (look at ACG and Hysol as examples) to match the requirerd properties. The matrix is a thermoset epoxy resin, that can have addidtives of just about any kind in order to strengthen, toughen, increase UV resistance, etc...Thats the point of composites, they can be tailored to meet just about any demand as an engineered synthetic material.

 

pretty much. and it can get more complex in a hurry..as mentioned, depending on the application/requirements of the material...many ranges of resin (epoxy, cyanate, etc) as well the fiber types themselves, are available. futher complicated by the types of adhesives used to bond given structures. Hexcel supplies the prepreg carbon to the ATR group, which makes the tubs for the Enzo, Carrera GT, etc, and Racing firms. if anyone wants to know the basics of composites, Hexcel has lots of info on their www.

 

AIRTECH in So-Cal, supplied tooling and materials to Ferrari for the F50's

 

Have just read this old tread for the first time. Long time ago I read reports that the Kroyman´s car was a 1999 model. To me it´s quite obvious that the car with its appearently unmotivated seam has got to be Schumacher´s Silverstone car.
When the factory got the wreck back after his crash, the natural descision would have been to dispose of it.
But because the car was undamaged behind the front bulkhead, they probably were tempted to save some money by selling it as a show car to a wealthy collector.

Therefore they just cut the tub clean just behind the damaged area, and thought they would get away with making a new front end to glue/bolt to the rest ot the tub and mount some old spare parts as new front suspension/frontwing.

In hindsight, obviously that was a descision that nearly took one of their innocent customer´s life, which explains why they were very eager to cover the wreck up before to many pictures were taken, and why they´ve been not so cooperative in revealing the real background to this strange incident!

 

I am not sure it makes sense! The epoxy degrades over time and they should be able to clearly specify the lifetime of the tub. By saying that we will look at delamination and wear to wing what needs to be done does not exactly inspire confidence and is not really comforting.

Maybe someone has connection to Beoing can tell us about the lifespan of the 787 tub.