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F512M Or Countach 25th Anniversario

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Rossocorsa1, Feb 4, 2019.

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If you could have one which would you choose and why?

  1. Ferrari F512M

    32 vote(s)
    65.3%
  2. Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversario

    17 vote(s)
    34.7%
  1. Themaven

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    The M is a fabulous car to drive. The engine, with its lightweight internals, has to be one of the best Ferrari units ever made. It revs more freely than a TR and was a key part in my decision to buy one. Not many Ms were made (501) so it's hard for people to experience and give informed opinions.

    The Countach does look super cool. I like Horacio Pagani's styling, though the original is prettier, the anniversario has panache. It would be a real head turner. It's just a bit too extroverted for me, but that's subjective.

    I think the Countach will be a better investment but who knows.
     
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  2. Kuba

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  3. Red Sled

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    I would suggest to the OP to exercise caution if buying mainly for the driving experience (which does not seem to be the case). Having owned a 512TR and an M, my experience is that the performance and driving feel is virtually indistinguishable on the road, at least. The air-con on the other hand is a big improvement over the choice of Arctic cold and Saharan heat available on the TR.

    As for revving more freely, it is certainly the case the M unit has less inertia, so if you rev it while in neutral it spins up and down slightly faster. However, with the gear engaged, the M and TR behave almost identically given identical gear ratios and similar performance. So unless you spend a lot of time in neutral at traffic lights revving the motor, you won't notice the difference.

    If the OP is buying for the driving experience, he may do well to save money with a TR. M's are more niche collectors items and priced as such.
     
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  4. Themaven

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    Hmm..it's a debate for another board, but I would respectfully disagree. Factually, the M does not have identical gearing to the 512 TR, it has a shorter transfer gear ratio. In terms of engine performance, there's little difference between the two at low revs, but between 5000 and 6500 rpm the combination of lighter piston design (alloy), variable pitch valve springs, and a 7.5 kg lighter crankshaft are a step change in the M, giving the feeling that the engine wants to rev out, an amazing feeling for a 180 degree V12. I also found a better throttle response, though this was marginal.

    I also find the M copes slightly better with a high-speed, mid-corner pothole, with more composure.

    What is true is that these differences will not be noticed if the owner doesn't drive the cars at high speed, making the M more of a museum piece. And if the rear breaks free mid-corner, good luck catching it with no traction control and low-geared manual steering, on either.

    I wonder if anyone on this thread has owned both an M and an Anniversario Countach. Would be interesting to hear. I would be intrigued by the idea of a straight swap, but I just wonder when if ever I would be in the mood/have the guts to drive the Countach around. Already, I find myself turning to my gated 430 Spider on a day when I need a spin, over the M. Not too dissimilar: nearly 500 hp (in the 430) in a midengined, gated Ferrari, both with proper steering (the 430 with PAS). The M is more of an occasion, but it also requires more mental space, and the 430 is more agile. I just don't think I'd ever find the occasion to drive the Countach, amazing looking car though it is (beats the Ferraris hands down on looks).
     
  5. Natkingcolebasket69

    Jul 2, 2017
    1,980
    Bay Area
    Feels like OP wants to purchase for collectors reason? If so I’d go with the 512M, even though I’d play bird box challenge everyday trying not to look at it lol


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  6. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

    May 14, 2017
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    Just thinking about what may be next. The debates are always fun.
     
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  7. Themaven

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    What are your opinions on either option?
     
  8. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

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  9. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ
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    I think most folks would agree that the best choice is......

    For driving = 512M

    For investment = Countach
     
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  10. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    I'm a "Ferrari" guy. That said, the Countach was always the most desirable car for me. It was the car I dreamt of as a teen more than any other. But, the 25th, while still amazing, was not THE Countach I wanted, the Quattrovalvole was. As for M's compared to Testarossa's and 512 TR's, I'm an M fan. I always felt the M was the coolest option. I understand that many Testarossa purists don't like it but I actually think it's amazing. So, between the Countach 25th and the M, I lean towards the M. Between the Countach Quattrovavole and the M, Countach hands down.
     
  11. Themaven

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    Interesting. I need to learn more about Countaches. I only really know the 25 anniversary edition, having been walked around one at Pagani just after he set his factory up.

    For looks, I think they all beat all the TR/M.
     
  12. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior
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    #37 Red Sled, Feb 13, 2019 at 3:39 PM
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019 at 3:44 PM
    I am aware that the idler ratio is approx 3% shorter in M than the 512TR which is barely discernible in the real world. The gear ratios themselves are identical, and the engines and the car accelerate quite similarly in each gear. Also, variable pitch valve springs reduce end-of-stroke stress on parts, and have nothing to do with propensity to rev. I would suggest that your comments are a kind of placebo effect of the cool tech (for the 90's at least) that Ferrari put in to the M engine.

    In my 15 years and 20k+ miles in the two cars, I found I could experience the upper revs and traction limits without resorting to high speeds as you claim. A tight bend on a mountain pass and a bootful of throttle would easily kick the tail out in 1st/2nd. Just need to treat it with respect and catch the resulting slide. Never found either car to be happy on track though.

    The reason for buying the M was to replace the TR while it was waiting for a pre-emptive differential carrier change. The reason for selling it two years ago was pricing which no longer made sense to me, and I had bought it for driving and not collecting. That, and I could never get used to the look of the M!

    In summary, I would say both are great cars, but I would not buy an M over a 512TR for the driving experience alone - to me they are barely distinguishable. Investing/collecting on the other hand is a whole different story.
     
  13. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ
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    Let me guess...... you've never driven one, have you ? :)

    Really the Countach was my dream car from childhood too....... until I actually owned / drove one ! Then I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. :p
     
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  14. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie

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    You guessed wrong. To each their own. To me the Countach is amazing and it's an event. Aside from the Ferrari supercars and a few Ferrari vintage cars, I don't think anything has the presence like a Countach. I currently own a superb example of a car from that era and I've owned others. Truth is, I've never been in awe of their performance. But, that has little to do with why I love them.
     
  15. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ
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    That's great !

    I always advise folks thinking about getting one (if they intend to actually drive / use it) to go drive one first --- just to make sure it matches their expectations.

    For me, it simply did not. I do still think it is one helluva car, to be sure........ just not one for me.

    And, I agree that there is probably no other car in the world ever made that has the "presence" of a Countach...... and, I highly doubt there ever will be.
     
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  16. Themaven

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    Interesting!

    I never tracked either.

    High revs are like a Gotterdammerung in the M. Fun, maybe not entirely necessary...a bit like a Ferrari!

    Or course you and I are both talking about a sample of one of each...

    Shame you sold your M but maybe wise timing!
     
  17. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I coveted a Countach right up to the point where I rode in one for a day. My back hurt for days. The next day I started looking at Boxers. I don't get all the negative comments about the 512M. To me it's the ultimate TR. I should have bought that beater M in Houston that a friend passed over
     
  18. Xtreme5053

    Xtreme5053 Karting
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    Which one was the beater M?


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  19. I’m sure the M is the more enjoyable car to drive...but I’d pick the countach for the pure drama, presence and uniqueness of the car. The M, to most, is just another testarossa. No disrespect intended, just not that rare to see around or hard to buy.
     

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